Social Justice Advocates Handbook: A Guide to Gender Understanding

5 Reasons Why So Many People Believe Feminism Hates Men and Why They’re Not True

by Sam Killermann · 675 comments

in Op-Ed

I'm a Feminist

I originally wrote the following article for Everyday Feminism. You can view that here.

“The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians.”

Pat Robertson famously said this in the 90s, and the sentiment still rings as true in the ears of many today.  It’s an understatement to say that feminism has a bad rap.

Feminism doesn’t hate men.

So why do so many people think feminism = man-hating? Let’s look at a few explanations for this fallacy.

#1 Because Some Individual Feminists Hate Men

Get my book!
Surprised to hear me say that?  It’s true.  There’s no point in avoiding it, so we might as well start with it.  Just look around the internet.

In 30 seconds on Google, I found this article (first page of my first search about “radical feminism”) and this delightful collection of quotes (my favorite: “To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” Thanks for the gem, Valerie Solanas.).

You don’t have to look very hard to find examples of “feminists” who hate men.

But there’s a difference between “feminists” and “misandrists.”

Ever heard the term misandrist? It’s like misogynist but for hating men instead of women.

Yes, misandrist is a word. But feminist doesn’t mean “person who hates men.”  Feminist means “person who believes people should have equitable places in society regardless of their gender.”

Some feminists may be misandrists.  I linked to a couple above.  But it’s by no means a criterion to join the club.

A portion does not equal the whole, even if that portion is really loud.

Though they’re not even that loud, but can seem so because anti-feminists like to cherry pick quotes and ignore the much greater number of feminist writings, people, and organizations that say otherwise.

Some individual feminists hate men.  A lot of feminists might hate men. You might even argue based on what you find on the internet that most feminists hate men.  It’s irrelevant.

What matters is that feminism, distilled down to its absolute core, is about gender equity.  The goal of feminism is to create a society in which individuals’ genders don’t restrict them from an equitable shot at success and happiness.

Most feminists actively disagree with the belief that women are better than men and think that feminists who are anti-men are going against the fundamental principles of feminism, which says we’re all deserving and worthy human beings – women, men, trans* - and should be treated as such.

So man-hating isn’t a part of that goal.  It’s an unfortunate reactionary sentiment bought into by some people (misandrists) who also identify with the feminist movement.

A lot of people get drunk in college, but we know that college is more than a big drinking club, right?  Isn’t it?  Maybe I attended the wrong college.

#2 Because People Have Been Told Feminists Hate Men for 200+ Years

The whole “feminists hate men” thing has been tossed around for quite a long time now.  It’s not new.  The first “feminist” women who began advocating for equal status of women in the US did so in the late 1700′s, but it didn’t really pick up steam until the late 1800′s.

What crazy radical things were these man-haters asking for?  Primarily, the rights to own property, to attend college, and to vote.

In response to these requests, they were were labeled as anti-family, anti-God, anti-men radical hedonists.  That labeling has continued to today, because — surprise! — a group with a lot of power (men) tends to do whatever it can to maintain that power (dismiss equal rights as radical).

It’s happened with every oppressed ethnic group (from the Irish to the Africans) that’s immigrated the country.  It happened with oppressed religious groups (from the Catholics to the Muslims).  And it continues today with the oppressed gender group.

Why do people believe it if it’s not true?

Because people are irrational.  One of the ways I know this is true because there’s an entire book written about it.  An example of how we act irrationally is called diagnosis bias.

A particularly fascinating study showed that the smallest change in the way you describe someone can completely alter the way you perceive their behavior.  How about an example?

A university class (unknowing lab rats) had a substitute professor.  To introduce the professor, the class members were given short bios.  What they didn’t know was that half the bios had been very slightly altered (e.g., exchanging warm, positive adjectives for cold, callous ones).

After the lecture, the students were asked to review the professor.  The entire class saw the same man say the same things, yet the reviews were split 50/50 positive and negative.  Half the class said he was personable, considerate, and engaged, while the other half said he was ruthless, would do anything for success, and didn’t care about students or people.

The smallest change in the way someone is described can make a dramatic change in the way you interpret their behavior and demeanor.

Now, hypothetically speaking, imagine how twisted the perceptions would have been if the students were told the professor was a student-hating, self-serving, radical hedonist.

Oh wait.

#3 Because Most Men Aren’t Bad But Think Feminism Says They Are

Let me bust a few myths.

  1. Being a feminist doesn’t mean you believe “all men are rapists.”  This quote comes from a book by Marilyn French and it seems to be recited more by anti-feminists (as a means of debunking feminism) than feminists themselves.  It’s simply a ridiculous statement that’s been given a ridiculous amount of airtime.
  1. Being a feminist doesn’t mean you think all men are evil.  Following up on the last point, a lot of anti-feminist folks make the argument that feminists believe all men are evil.  This is not true.
  1. Being a feminist doesn’t mean you blame every individual man you know for hundreds of years of oppressive behavior.  Just like you wouldn’t point at a random White person today and blame them for slavery, you can’t blame an individual man today for a history of sexism.

A lot of people think about the things above, think about the men they know (or, if they are men, they think about themselves), and think “That’s ridiculous, ____ isn’t an evil rapist who is responsible for hundreds of years of sexism.”

A lot of people are right.

The thing feminism thinks is bad is the hundreds of years of sexism part, as well as the existence of sexism today.  Sexism is the problem — sexism that a lot of men engage in and a lot of women internalize.

Men engage in sexism because they’ve been taught to behave/think that way.  Women internalize it for the same reason.

Feminism asks both men and women to critically think about those normalized behavior and its impact, and holds people accountable to sexist thinking and behavior even if they didn’t initially realize it was sexist.

So yes, it’s natural to get defensive when someone brings up feminist issues because it’s likely you never thought you were doing anything wrong.  Does that make sexist behavior acceptable?  No.

That’s why we need to do a better job as a society to teach people how to treat each other with equity.  That’s what feminism is trying to do here.

#4 Because Some Feminists Aren’t Willing To Address Men’s Issues (Though Some Are)

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Working towards gender equity means equity for all genders, right?  Then what about men?  And what about trans* folks?  This is a question that often gets raised by men (about men, not as much for trans* folk).

Feminism in general has mixed feelings about addressing men’s (and trans*) issues.

I’ll be the first person to admit that there are a lot of gender-based men’s issues to address.  Like why young men today are less likely to graduate from college, attain a high GPA, be active in extracurricular organizations or seek leadership roles; or why men in general have always been more likely to be caught up in the criminal justice system or be homeless.  These are real issues, surely, and things our society should work to correct.

But do many feminists ignore these issues because they hate men?  No.

The mixed feelings about addressing men’s issues tend to stem from the fact that “men’s issues” tends to be the default in our society.  We’re a male dominant society.

Many feminists are concerned that addressing men’s issues (or gender issues as a broad goal) will move the conversation completely away from women’s issues, resulting in no progress for the women’s part of the gender progress.

So instead they focus on women’s issues and allow others to focus on other’s issues.  Many feminists would like to see pro-feminist men tackle men’s issues in a way that doesn’t blame women and feminism for all their problems (like MRA’s).

However, it’s worth noting that we here at Everyday Feminism are both men- and trans*-inclusive.  We take an intersectional approach to feminism and look at how different groups of genders, sexual orientations, races, classes, and more are dominated in our society. Our inclusive approach is a big part of our popularity – i.e. a lot of feminists are also inclusive.

#5 Because Sensationalism Is a Good Way To Distract From Real Issues

It’s pretty messed up that being born a certain way means you’re going to be less likely to earn as much money, achieve the same tier of success, be treated with respect and fairness, be elected into political office… but those restrictions are objectively measurable.

Those issues mentioned above affect just about every identity group in the US other than people who are White and male (and straight, non-disabled, etc.) — like me!

Instead of dealing with inequality and giving up a bit of unearned power, it’s far more fruitful to change the conversation and put the oppressed group on the defensive.

Blacks are more likely to be imprisoned because being a criminal is part of being black.  Have fun arguing about that while we enjoy our unfairly granted innocent verdicts.

Gays can’t be given rights to form families because being a child molester is part of being gay.  Go ahead and re-read all of those nonsensical studies and commission some more while we enjoy our access to 1,138 benefits granted solely to married couples.

Women don’t earn as much as men because earning a lower wage for the same work is part of being a woman.  Oh, and babies.  Don’t forget, you make the babies.  What a miracle!  That should be payment enough.

Social change is slow because the people in power are the ones writing the narrative, and they often choose a distracting narrative.

Did you know that up until the early 20th century there was an actual medical condition called “female hysteria” (yes, “hyster,” as in hysterectomy, or pertaining to the uterus)?

Some of the symptoms of female hysteria: loss of appetite, nervousness, irritability, fluid retention, emotional excitability, outbursts of negativity, excessive sexual desire and “a tendency to cause trouble.”

In other words, if a woman wasn’t eating, was eating too much, was angry, happy, wanted to have sex, or wanted equal rights for women (you trouble causers, you!), she was mentally ill and her behavior could be dismissed as such.

Guess who came up with that idea? You guessed it!  White dudes.

Am I Trying To Bring the White Man Down?

No.  I am a White man.  That wouldn’t serve me well at all.

What I’m trying to do, and what feminism is trying to do, is bring the woman up.

While an understandable response to this idea for men is a defensive one, considering so many of the bad things in history have been caused by men (by so many, I mean, like, all of them).  That’s also a positive response, because it means you’re accessing empathy.

You don’t want to be seen as the “bad guy” (what a misandristic term!).  You don’t hate women.  You’ve never oppressed women.  Of course you haven’t.  Oppression doesn’t happen on the individual level.

But it happens.  And as a man, particularly one who is White (like me!), you are granted a lot of privileges that stem from hundreds of years of oppression.  You get that privilege whether you choose to have them or not.

The only choice you get is what you do with your privilege.

Do you use it to make for a more equitable society for mothers, sisters, and daughters you love all human beings, of all genders?

Or do you keep whining about how feminists hate men and distracting yourself and others from serious issues of inequality?

Your call.

Written by Sam Killermann

Sam is a writer and performer who uses those skills as an ally to advance progress in the realms of LGBT equality and social justice. He tours the country speaking to college students about stereotypes, prejudice, and oppression, and writes for this site when he's at home in Austin, TX.

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  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=72204662 Vi Doan

    Equalism. Not the equalism that exists on Google, but Equalism as a new term for the third/fourth wave feminism that Americans can now afford to explore. Equality for all genders. Freedom of spirit for all genders. No fem-focus.
    I call myself a feminist, but if being an Equalist was something that people had a name for, I would be it.

    • http://samuelkillermann.com/ Samuel Killermann

      I try to stay away from the word equal, but I will happily call myself an Equitist :)

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=72204662 Vi Doan

        I may like that. So far google has a term “equitist” that seems to relate to economics already, but maybe we can work with that…

        • http://twitter.com/mathewrodriguez Mathew Rodriguez

          Egalitarians

    • Don’t be selfish be a humanist

      I believe you mean a Humanist… some feminists are ok…. but they’re the confused ones who don’t realise they’re actually HUMANISTS

      • Xivilai

        Finally, someone I can completely agree with.

      • Ummm

        Because you can’t be both?

        • Nick

          Not if your definition of “humans” is “men”.

          • Bob The equalist

            Well said, but stop calling yourself a feminist. Most guys who call themselves feminists are the real pigs. They lie themselves into the pants of women by pretending to have taken a side. I see it ALL THE TIME! Especially on facebook. “Hi I stand up for women!” And then girls FLOOD all over them. It’s fucking sad.

    • Meilofrost

      I believe it would be called gender egalitarianism. That’s what I identify as, at least. Feminism, in concept, is a worthy cause, but egalitarianism is more specific, and arguably inclusive of both men and women. I don’t think I could sleep without supporting the resolution of men’s problems as well. We’ll never reactrue equality between both genders if we all keep yammering on one’s ‘s problems without adressing the other’s. The thing is, gender inequality is a complementary thing. Where women are expected to take care of the household and raise the children, men are expected to be the breadwinner and fight in wars. The way to change it is to simultaneously advocate equality for both genders, and reject traditional gender roles, as well as gender related double standards. I completely agree with you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/cranberry.townshipgay.39 Cranberry Township-gay

    THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN LESSER SALARIES AND PHYSICAL BAGGAGE THAT FEMININITY BEARS
    ———————————————————————————–
    if Strongwoman is entitled to equal pay…

    …she would hire a nanny instead of costing her employer through months of “maternity leave”
    …members of her sickly gender would not call-in sick more than 40% more often than men
    …she would not feel a maternal instinct to be at home when her children are sick and need care
    …her monthly, mood-unstabilizing egg-bleed would not unstabilize her job-performance
    …there wouldn’t be something called “menstrual leave” in a number of countries
    …there wouldn’t be gender-based military requirements to compensate for a weaker/less-apt gender

    furthermore, the number of single-parent conceptions should fly in the face of the legitimacy of single-parent households
    ————————————————————————————————————
    http://www.thelessergender.com

    • http://twitter.com/brando_mcgregor Brando McGreggo

      This is who you are associating with anti-feminists. If you’re going to cherry pick feminist quotes to make all feminists look bad, then don’t complain when I use this guys website as a way to attack you back.

    • Dominic Blais

      equal pay when they spend 50% of everything they make to meet men

    • Dominic Blais

      i woman makes 75 cents for every dollar a man does but the woman collects 50 cents from every dollar a man makes so she gets 1.25 for the 50 cents the man made how is this not fair to women the problem is men make less

    • rhymes

      This is reverse sexism, we all know it doesn’t work. We need to help women understand us, not give them more generalisations to make about us.

  • Andrew

    This is a good article. I agree that feminism gets a bad rap. But I must say I don’t like the name feminism one bit… if it’s in favor of equality, why does the name make it sound so one-sided? I’m not saying that true feminists (as though anyone can agree on a definition) are not in favor of equality, but why do they carry a name that heavily implies that men’s issues ought to be ignored.

    To me, ditching the name seems as though it’d carry a multitude of benefits. Not only would calling it something other than feminism better convey the message of equality, but it would also help prevent alienating men that are in favor of equality. In addition, it would distance the movement from so many “feminists” who really are misandrists. Rational men and women certainly feel that equality is a nice thing to pursue, but why do so with a name that alienates, misguides, and carries bad associations?

    • Dominic Blais

      because feminism has nothing to do with equality any time a woman is really treated equal some man gets a sex charge, or fired

  • http://twitter.com/JamesFullman James Fullman

    Do you believe the feminist/patriarchy theory narrative and doctored statistics on domestic violence? If so, you hate men.

    ThirtyYears of Denying the Evidence on Gender

    Symmetry in PartnerViolence: I
    http://pubpages.unh.edu/~mas2/V71-Straus_Thirty-Years-Denying-Evidence-PV_10.pdf

  • Very Serious

    well there are certainly much more gay women nowadays than ever before.

    • http://www.facebook.com/jenniferspuddymcgeetaylor Jennifer Spuddy McGee Taylor

      really? I find that claim completely bizarre If you mean “people who say they are gay” then yes, you’re probably right, because in western culture “homosexuality” has only existed as a word for a couple of hundred years – “coming out” is a very very modern concept, as is the conceptual need to “define” sexuality (thank you very much Freud et al… cough cough…)

      If, however, you mean “women who have sexual desires/romantic attachments/sex with other women” then I’m afraid I am inclined to believe you are wrong. Historical evidence for “homosexuality” (or actually, “fluid” sexuality would be more appropriate) is huge, and can be seen in pretty much every documented human culture dating back to the palaeolithic…

      If the latter, are you somehow insinuating that the rise of women’s rights movements has had a causative effects on the number of gay women? That someone can be “turned gay” or “liberated into gaydom”?

      I’m sorry if I come across as aggressive, I don’t mean to :) I am genuinely interested in your reply ^.^

      • Very Serious

        well since many women like to Curse at us men when we will try to start a conversation with them which makes me wonder how many mentally disturbed women are out there these days, and it is certainly not Right for many women to Curse at us. and i know other men that had this happened to them too since there are so many Very Troubled Women that are out there nowadays, and it is very obvious why us Good men can’t meet a Good woman anymore now. Isn’t It?

    • Dominic Blais

      that’s because they ridicule and shame any man who treats them like a human being

      • Very Serious

        you are so very right, and it is a shame that many women are so very Pathetic today.

  • Rocky Fernvale

    Sam, that’s a very nice pipe dream about the Everyday Feminism group. Can you explain then how the jewish holocaust has become a feminist issue where it’s acceptable to recognise the women and children that died but exclude mention of the men, and then debate with me about the meaning of feminism saying that it’s not so much about equality but rather about women, with a merriam-webster dictionary link to back their argument up.

    Can you also tell me why my challenge to this has resulted in me being banned from the page, and the history of that conversation deleted?

    Modern feminism IS about promotion of women at the expense of men and has a total disregard for the attitude it has created in society that demonises men. It hypocritical BS. Any right minded individual would reject it without hesitation.

  • pvblivs

    No, you don’t have to look far to find feminists who hate men. You just look at the ones who have been leading the movement for the entire time. Hillary Clinton doesn’t exactly work at McDonald’s.

    The quotes are not a matter of cherry-picking. These are the movers and the shakers. They are the ones who “get things done” in the movement. And they do it with your support.

    Now here’s the thing. Feminism is not about equality. When there is a discussion on issues men face, feminists show up to protest. We look at what the movement does. Feminism has encouraged universities to expel male students falsely accused of rape. That’s not a push for equality.

    • Mimi

      Where did you get that idea from? Feminism IS about equality. That’s what the definition of feminism is. Even the urban dictionary has some accurate definitions. There are many male issues that feminism wants to tackle – especially the false accusations of rape. I don’t understand why people try so hard to desperately bring down or criticise feminism when they haven’t even educated themselves on what it’s truly about. Which is equality.

      • tony d

        Feminism got hijacked. It also seems that, as you seem to imply, it still is. Feminism of the seventies morphed into misandry. Born in the sixties I grew up “apologising” for being a man. I actually believed that women were “better people.”

        Then I started reading and realised the truth. Society has been man bashing for decades.

        I now identify with MRA. My wife, when I met her always described herself as a feminist.

        She staggered me in early 2000′s when she declared she wasn’t.

        You are not going to clean up the tainted image. I like the new sounding 4th wave, but you can’t claim that any movement that calls it self “feminism” cares about men.
        Time to leave it to the misandric harpies.

        Start a new wave “humanist?”

        Too late, that has been taken by athiests, so doesn’t feel inclusive for thiests.

        • Gene Novak

          Most atheists prefer a secular viewpoint, we’re not exclusive of theists providing they don’t try to make it about religion. As far as it ever being about equality I kind of doubt that. Look at what Erin Pizzey said about her dealings w/early feminism.

      • Phil

        If feminists are so interested in tackling false rape accusations, how come the Brevard County (FL) chapter of NOW has a convicted false rape accuser on its board of directors?

      • sdrake

        Feminism may have started out that way but is a far cry from that now.

  • Antigone

    It should also be noted that “misandry” is often used satirically by feminists in order to get rid of derailers, particularly those who seem to identify everything that doesn’t put men on a pedestal as “misandry”.

    • rhymes

      You think men are put on a pedestal in western society? We have two options, work a job we probably hate for 40 hours a week for most of our lives in order to feed ourselves and possibly a family, obey the laws of society and they expectations of society (a man must be strong, yet gentle, stoistic, yet sensitive, considerate, yet emotionless) and get basically nothing in return OR be labelled as a deadbeat.

      Unemployed women aren’t usually labeled as scum, why is this? It’s almost as if our society has created an atmosphere where people are far more empathetic towards women than men, which makes hatred towards men (and self-hatred in men) perfectly acceptable. Look at the statistics, if the violence is coming from a woman, another man, or from himself, male victims of violence are much more common and get no sympathy.

      • Pam

        Unemployed women aren’t labelled scum? What magical place do you live where the welfare queen stereotype doesn’t exist?

        • Dominic Blais

          they may be ridiculed but are they left to starve

  • Nickolai

    I am a MRA supporter and I do believe that some men’s issues are caused by feminism.

    • Shireshmala

      Well that’s nice but that’s no bloody use is it? ARandomGuy thinks feminism caused [unspecified] issues. Well now I’m enlightened.

      You’re long gone so now we’ll never know which issues you think it caused, or how you think it managed this, and why others aren’t to blame for this issue. Brilliant.

    • Nelly45

      For example….?

      • Dominic Blais

        men who treat women like sex objects get sex while men who respect women get ridiculed by women and the sexist pigs that are not even men in my book. they fall under belongs in a zoo or prison with the other rapists. if he is hot its still rape or if its not rape cuz he is hot than its not rape when Joe blow does it

        • StudlyDoRight

          Let it allll out, dude. I’m sure you respect women all over the place given your comments on this article.

          Sarcasm aside, if you genuinely DO respect women (and, surprise surprise, this often means being a feminist – a real one, not faking to pick up chicks) it’s actually extremely easy to “get sex.” You might get a healthy, respect-based relationship out of it as well!

          Although part of your problem might be using language like “get sex” and acting all hurt and angry at all womankind. Not being a woman, I can’t say for sure, but it seems like those would be turn-offs.

          Love,
          A proudly feminist dude

          • Dominic Blais

            yet another mangina respecting women is very easy and generally done by most men. i don’t go threw life calling every woman a cunt, hitting them or anything else. i am polite considerate and respectful ( i don’t hit on everything with tits ) like the pua rape game players these are the ones who view women as sex objects but they chase them endlessly while they tell men they want to be respected but they only fuck those who think of them as sex objects ( single mom rates are proof of this and lack of long term relationships to raise children in a positive environment )

        • Pam

          You want to know why women don’t want to have sex with you? It’s because you’re a horrible person who doesn’t respect us. You’re a quintessential Nice Guy – someone who thinks that because you don’t yell whore! at every woman you see (although you probably are saying it inside), that women owe you sex. We don’t. You don’t respect women, you see them as sex objects who owe you something.

          • Vitaly Klitschko

            What’s to respect? When you commercialize relationships, you make people into pieces of meat. And that’s what “dating” is all about – free market capitalism. Sex sells. And feminism made women into sex objects when it embraced the Pill and promiscuity. Hence the porn industry. You want to have it all because that’s how you were brought up by Cosmopolitan. But you deserve less than nothing and female ‘beauty’ is a myth. If you deny male sexual desire, you’ll end up using test tube gene splicing to have kids when you’re all dried up in your forties after a lifetime of abusing men.

          • JK

            Crack sells, but try explaining that to a cop.

          • Dominic Blais

            no your a feminazi cunt who likes only men who view you as a sex object, are alpha, stupid and violent enough to be attractive to women. women are slave to their reptilian brains they want to say they want all these good quality’s in men but all the men who have them end up angry and pissed off because women lie to us, use us and abuse us. you think women can do nothing wrong. that’s what makes feminism a hate movement they want special privileges they do not want equality, and i know the guys women like they have absolutely zero good quality’s if a man has decent quality’s all women call him creepy

          • JK

            It’s a good thing you respect women…

  • William Jenkins

    Thank you for this very even-handed piece. I understand why feminists would need to focus on women’s rights only because trying to do too many things usually means doing them all badly. It may sound like a contradiction, but women and men are both discriminated against in different ways. I wouldn’t expect feminists to campaign for men’s rights, but I would ask that they stop campaigning against men’s rights. For example, in the USA, NOW works tirelessly to make sure women are always granted full custody of children. In India, feminist Chandana ChakraAborty argued that sexual harassment of males should be legal lest men file false accusations. Feminists are a very diverse bunch who have very diverse views. However, unless the feminists who believe men deserve equal rights too speak up, the conversation will be dominated by the most rabid man-haters.

    • Ummm

      There’s also groups for men that help them get granted full custody of children, and there’s an MRA (in India as well if I remember correctly) who is against the criminalization of marital rape.

      • Mark Neil

        Misrepresentations, unless you can provide a source. The MRA’s in India are opposed to the current marital rape laws, because they have demonstrably been used for vengence (http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2013-05-26/india/39538054_1_justice-g-p-mittal). They are so uneven, so biased in women’s favor, that the legal system has become a tool of abuse.

        And fathers rights groups in the US advocate for shared custody. The primary evidence they use is the evidence that demonstrates the value of having a relationship with BOTH parents… would kind of defeat the purpose to then cut the other one out, would it not?

        • Sameer Desai

          A there is no recognition of marital rape in India. The article talks about rape not marital rape.

          The law wives have misused is 498a under which her complain is enough to arrest everyone mentioned in it, even relatives living miles away.

          • Mark Neil

            My apologies for the poor wording. MRA’s in India are opposed to marital rape because existing rape (not marital rape) Laws have demonstrated such an extreme bias in favor of women, and are thus, being routinely used as a weapon, that the marital rape laws would only add an additional weapon to women’s arsenal, if the marital rape laws aren’t carefully balanced, which they’re not.

          • Col_Conran

            are you kidding!!!,
            Did you not see on the news the girl who was gang raped on the bus & had a rod shoved up inside her & she later dies from her injuries. & you said ” Laws have demonstrated such an extreme bias in favor of women, and are thus, being routinely used as a weapon” You do know this girls brutal rape isn’t the only one to happen in India, it’s an epidemic. AND why was this girl packed raped, the men felt she shouldn’t have been out in public with a man who wasn’t her husband REALLY REALLY this is an excuse that men actually believe condones RAPE. Women in India need all the laws the can get to protect them from lunatic males who will kill them if they don’t fit into their view of what a woman should do or not do

          • Mark Neil

            Can you please explain how you think something bad happening to a woman, outside the courts, disproves my assertion of what happens inside them? How exactly does that girls rape and murder prove that the law isn’t being wrongfully used by others? Simply answer is, it doesn’t. You are attempting to illicit an visceral emotional reaction, rather than actually addressing what I said. What I has said is, the laws currently in place lack a reasonable balance, and as such, are being used as a weapon… and it’s not just me that says that, judges have said as much as well.

            “Women in India need all the laws the can get to protect them from lunatic males who will kill them if they don’t fit into their view of what a woman should do or not do”

            1: The existing laws didn’t serve to protect her. It is incredibly never to believe any law will protect you, rather than met out justice after the fact. Bad people do bad things, regardless of the laws.

            2: What you are proposing is a shift in the balance of power to enable women to abuse men. You are not advocating equality, you are advocating supremacy. All this will do is create more animosity between the sexes in an already segregated society. What the middle eastern countries/states really needs is a cultural shift away from the segregation, not simply to reverse who’s most restricted by that segregation.

            I think it is rather telling that you don’t give a damn about establishing, let alone compounding, an institutionally enforced sexism and oppression against men, because “rape” and “women need it”. It just goes to show, feminism isn’t about equality, only presenting women as victims in order to vie for more power

          • Col_Conran

            Rubbish, “oppression against men”. If men are so god damn oppressed why is 70% of the worlds poor female you fool & why aren’t you & your MRA brothers trying to improve this. Why because you only want to help privileged males get more privileged

            with “women rape men you know”

            the numbers are nowhere near the same & you know this !! your point is just stupid to try a lighten what women go though.

            Do women ripe a man’s ass open when they rape them, NO.

            Since the explosion of misogynistic porn this is what now happens to a great deal of raped women ,they need surgery to recover.
            Anal cancer is on the rise for men(gay men usually) but has doubled for women in the last twenty years, since porn took over some men’s lives.

            You have a greater chance of being raped by another man than a woman & a greater chance of being murdered by another man than a woman. But hey don’t let facts get in the way of MRA crap.

          • Holy hell

            Wow… I am staggered by the lack of thought put into your words…

            1. 70% of the WORLD maybe, but here in America, men are more in poverty than ever. Even with women making less money on the dollar, they control and spend more of it, and the fact that they’re making less is because they choose less lucrative jobs.

            2. So it’s not an issue? Rape is serious, no one should have non consensual sex. Besides, he’s just saying that it happens.

            3.Misogynistic porn, eh? Most people don’t rape, and porn just gives women a higher value of desire.

            4. Really? The porn has lead to more rapes? Care to give any statistics? Porn, besides being unchristianly, is a perfectly healthy way for a male to get out sexual urges. It’s been vilified because women wouldn’t want men to become less dependent.

            5. Again, where’s your proof that anal cancer is due to anal rape?

            6. Men are also more likely the victims of murder. So?

            7. It’s only crap when you can’t tell the difference.

          • Col_Conran

            Your totally lack of knowledge is just astounding. I’m a nurse & what is on the rise is girls coming in needing anal surgery to repair what their boyfriends have done to them, one girl told me her boyfriend got angry with her because she screamed when he tore her as the porn stars don’t scream Anal cancer is on the rise for women , just google it & you’ll easily find the facts on this. As for your naive comment that women earn less because of job choices tells me your a total fool. Their talking about when women do the same job but are getting paid less. Women retire on less because they have to leave the workforce to have children, men don’t! Wow just Wow how uneducated are you!!!!

          • keine rhobar

            seriously tipical you can see only one side of the coin:(

          • Dexter

            Well, actually, if you had some knowledge inside you, then you’d know women get paid equally to men. The ‘difference’ is just when a woman decides to have a child and takes time off. I mean seriously, a job that is offered for ‘$x’ is still going to be $x when the job is taken. When would a manager say “Ok, Ms. Bloggs, you’ve got the job, but I’ll be paying you less than what the job was advertised for because you are a woman”?

          • truth guest

            Hey mate, one of my female jorno’s was getting paid less than us guys. She only realized when we were all talking one night at a bar about how much we got paid. She went then & demanded to be paid the same & got it. It happens more than you think, it shouldn’t, but it does happen.

          • Natasha

            1) Wrong. There are more women in poverty than men in the USA. http://guardianlv.com/2013/09/41-percent-of-u-s-women-face-poverty/ And where is your evidence that women intentionally choose less well-paying jobs?

            2) “It happens” is a bullshit excuse. Let’s apply that to any other crime. Murdering someone? “It happens.” Stealing from someone? “It happens.” Yeah, no. We should be fighting against crimes with victims in them, instead of just saying “it happens.”

            3) Whoa there! First of all, we know that most people, even most men, are not rapists. But porn gives women a “higher value of desire”? I’m pretty sure that’s not true. In fact, it’s been demonstrated that watching an excessive amount of porn sets an unrealistic expectation of women and sex. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWp5lOaW3sM

            4) I’m not necessarily anti-porn, but your ridiculous notion that it is being “vilified because women wouldn’t want men to become less dependent.” Is the most ridiculous bullshit from an MRA EVER. Well, second to the idea that men have it worse than women. But anyway, being against porn is not necessarily a feminist issue, as feminists are divided on pornography. And even if we all were, it’s not because of THAT. Most people are aware that REAL SEX is better than FANTASY. EVEN MEN KNOW THAT. Women are not afraid of men turning to pornography instead of them because it makes them less dependent. HOW does watching pornography make men less dependent? You mean for sex? Um, even men know that watch pornography know that real sex is better. And this point contradicted #3. If pornography makes women more desirable, how does it also make them less dependent on women for sex? If you mean it makes the women displayed in pornography more desirable, then you should quantify that,in #3, because that sure as hell doesn’t benefit women as a group.

            5) I don’t know about 5.

            6) Men are more likely to be murdered by other men. Men are also more likely to be raped by other men. In fact, most serious crimes are committed by men. What is your point? This is NOT women’s doing!

            7) There is nothing wrong with advocating for men, in fact I think that is a good idea. However, there is a reason why the vast majority of people, including a lot of sexist men, don’t take MRA seriously: they tend to say that women are at some serious advantage, that we live in some utopian matriarchal society, and that sexism against women is just some feminist fabrication. No one can take these non-facts seriously.

          • Reba

            Nobel Prize winning economist wrote the “more than 100
            million woman are missing”. “China has 107 males for every 100 females
            in it’s overall population (and an even greater disproportions among
            newborns), India has 108 and Pakistan has 111. This has nothing to do
            with biology and indeed the state of Kerala in southwest of India ,
            which has championed female education and equality, has the same excess
            of females that exist in the United States” (HALF THE SKY-I book I
            recommend reading in order to fully understand this issue).
            Why
            cant we understand that this issue is bigger than words. I have rarely
            ever felt oppressed in my life because of my gender, maybe one day I
            will. Though I don’t currently feel oppressed by my society I WILL
            FIGHT FOR WOMEN WHO ARE. There is no doubt in my mind that millions of
            women worldwide are oppressed simply because of their gender. The
            statistics above demonstrate the women who died because of this bias.
            Are there men who are oppressed as well? OF COURSE. But the real issue
            we are spending more time defining feminism than actually fighting
            against sick and blatant gender discrimination

          • Mark Neil

            While your post doesn’t really address anything I said, I will comment on a few points made.

            “Though I don’t currently feel oppressed by my society I WILL FIGHT FOR WOMEN WHO ARE.”

            That’s fine, under two conditions. 1: Your methods to do so do not tread on men, as many feminist tactics currently do. And 2: You don’t attack and challenge those who are fighting for the same thing for men, claiming to be already fighting that fight, and so they aren’t actually needed, as… again…so many feminists do

            ” But the real issue we are spending more time defining feminism than actually fighting against sick and blatant gender discrimination”

            I think that speaks a lot to how irrelevant and meaningless feminism has become. Hell, in your post, you say you will fight for “WOMEN” who are oppressed, yet in the image from the article, they claim to want equality for “ALL” genders. There isn’t even any consistency among your own ranks as to whether you’re about equality or about women. And so when feminists come at men’s groups telling them they aren’t needed and that they should be feminists, we see people like you, and think “like hell”… and then get called misogynists for declining and choosing to address our own issues.

            “Though I don’t currently feel oppressed by my society”

            A lot of men are starting to, especially in western societies, but even in India, where women are presented as the poster children of oppression… even men who don’t identify as MRA. Why do you think the men’s movement has grown so astronomically in the last decade? And yet, feminism seems more concerned with painting a pretty picture of itself than acknowledging these issues and ether 1: helping to address them, or 2: standing aside and supporting those who are addressing them, just as they have demanded of men for the last 40+ years. If feminism didn’t stand in the way of these issues being acknowledged and addressed, do you really think they would even have a need to paint that pretty picture?

          • I’m sure

            I’m going to wager that the only female gender discrimination you’ve seen is how they are treated with more respect and as upper class citizens.

          • God Damn

            Damn Straight

      • William Jenkins

        I don’t know the situation in India that Mark Neil alludes to, but I have heard MRA’s trying to justify or excuse sexual assault against one’s wife, and I think it’s disgusting. I think it’s awesome that many MRA’s support male victims of sexual assault, but when MRA’s try to minimize or trivialize sexual violence against women, I think they are 100% wrong. Everyone deserves to be free from sexual violence, and I think 99% of feminists understand that.

      • Sameer

        How would marital rape be established? The wife would have had sex with the husband innumerable times.
        If there is force and assault Domestic Violence covers that.

      • this is, a merry willywonka

        lol UHMMMMMMMAAA…
        ooh and let me clarify: I LOVE MY FELLOW TETOCLI’S. we need our men (not in a sexist kind of way) but solely in the way that hey I get sick of too many girls I mean christ right? the attitude, men, the good ones, get it. They are so simple its such a nice transition I enjoy it sometimes i feel like a guy myself we’re all after the same thing (happiness) and okay maybe pussy for them lol but in the end, we are all brothers and sisters, so lets all love our fellow brother EXCEPT CURSED WITH STUPIDITY ASSHOLES, ah yes THEY can rot in hell. BBbbuuuuut; on a lighter note, let’s love each other.
        MUWAH. seriously i need somoene to play video games with and do crazy life threatening extravaganzas and frankly my fellow vagina ain’t always there to back me up. What’s a SMALL TOWN GURL ta DEW?!
        no i’m white
        LUHV YIA . MUWAH.

        see? dont yoiu get sick of 24 hours of the same behavior. UGH I’m getting a nosejob :D
        KUDOS!

      • Daniel

        you won’t find many people who are ok with marital rape.

    • Anon

      That may be, but if you check the internet lately, you might see that there are countless woman-haters out there…you know, in case you didn’t notice.

      • William Jenkins

        Anon, you are completely correct. I consider the hatred of women and the hatred of men to be equally morally wrong, though at the present time I consider the hatred of women (misogyny) to be a bigger problem simply because there seems to be more of it going around. In fact, I think feminists, on average, are actually doing a much better job at refraining from animus against the opposite sex than men’s rights activists (MRA’s) are. I would have hoped that people dissatisfied with feminism would have said, “Hey, we don’t like it when women blame everything on men, so let’s make sure that we don’t blame everything on women.” Unfortunately, it feels more like they said, “Hey, we don’t like it when women blame everything on men, so let’s get even and blame women for everything!” At any rate, you’re right, I’m a hypocrite if I decry misandry but tolerate misogyny, and I really hope MRA’s realize they are being hypocritical as well.

        • Daniel

          you are misinformed. misandry is far more commonly “seen” than misogyny( 3-4 times more). People just accept it, where they don’t accept misogyny.

          You really need to re examine your view of feminists. They are by far the most aggressive group you will encounter.

          • Col_Conran

            Rubbish, the most aggressive group are misogynistic men who just hate women. Why to you think the PORN industry makes so much money, it thrives on men that love to dominate, humiliate & hurt women. This is misogyny in it’s worst form & the most aggressive group ever. It is effecting the health of the females of this world, their being pressured to receive acts their partners see online. Bowel repair on women is becoming a huge problem the world over, but hey I guess you’d brush this off as consensual sex eh!!

          • JohnHousecat

            Hold up now–the women in the porn industry (and sex workers) would beg to differ with you. No one’s holding guns to their heads to be part of the porn industry. Just as you THINK that the porn industry thrives on men WHO (nice to see you using a pronoun that makes men into objects rather than people there) “love to dominate, humiliate & hurt women”, the porn industry would be nothing without the women who are willing participants in its dynamics.

          • Col_Conran

            I’m not talking about that & yes I’m sure there are people who choose on their own free will to do whoever the hell they want. But there are women who go to make sex movies & find themselves pressured to do a lot of anal scenes to please a Male market. There are documentaries on this.

            That doesn’t change what the porn industry is doing to the average person who becomes addicted.

            It is now starting to be one of the main reasons women seek a divorce as their husband is addicted to porn & they have no sex life as a couple, love, intimacy die.

            Porn is the reason so many girls are being rushed to hospital with part of their bowel hanging out (I’m a nurse) their boyfriends are trying to do what they see on porn.

            Porn is promoting, no condoms (very dangerous) a very submissive woman (real life isn’t like this) & worst of all is the new one of sucking a males penis after it has been in the ass ( this spreads hepatitis & other dangerous diseases) there is a reason why your mother told you to wash your hands after going to the toilet)

            And this is just of it. Women are building antibodies to sperm in their bloodstreams. When sperm is in the anus it is very easy for it to get into a woman bloodstream & her body will react to it & create antibodies to kill it. End result infertility in the female, she’ll need IVF treatment to conceive.

            The rise in anal cancer in women is another major problem more & more women are contacting the HPV virus though unprotected sex & the anus picks up all diseases easier as the blood supply is so close to the surface, unlike the vagina which is designed for sex just in case some men have forgotten what it is for.

            Anyway I could go one but I’m sure there is no need.

          • sllab xussulpg

            Again, you’re hopelessly ignorant. Women get pressured into anal scenes? How about straight men get pressured into making gay movies if they want to make a living in porn? How about straight men injecting chemicals into their dicks because that’s the only way to stay hard over a multi-hour shoot?

            In any kind of acting, porn or not, there is tremendous pressure to do things which are uncomfortable regardless of gender. You’re cherry picking the issues women face and calling it misogyny, while ignoring actors of both sexes have to do lousy things to work in the business.

            And believe it or not, many women do enjoy anal sex, and that includes watching it in porn films.

          • Truth Guest

            What r you on about, the post you replied to was talking about medically what is happening today as a result of porn pressure, You rave on about the comment being ignorant, it is hardly an igornorant post, more factual actually.

          • sllab xussulpg

            If it were a medical problem you’d see plenty of men being rushed to the hospital as well. Strange she didn’t mention those cases, huh?

            I was pointing that out both female AND male porn actors face such pressures and her misogyny claims as they relate to porn are baseless.

            Her medical claim is a smoke screen. Many people these days are morally fine with pornography and the claims it exploits women no longer apply. Therefore, they sidestep that argument and claim it’s wrong “for medical reasons”.

          • Jane

            “Again, you’re hopelessly ignorant.”

            I have been part of many conversations and once I see/hear the comment above, I know the conversation is officially over. Perhaps you are right. There are most likely males and females pressured in the porn industry, as in any job. (Note: I am not here to talk about the psychology of whether this is harmful or not as work). However, that comment is the reason you will only be heard on the internet and given little if any attention offline unless you alter your tone in your place of work.

            There are three flaws to this approach. The first is you are name-calling. Anyone knowledgeable of rhetorical fallacies understands that one this occurs it is a desperate attempt to downplay the position of the other individual. Those who have limited experience in debate will feed into the emotionalism of your presentation. Also, I am not sure if you are a misogynist or a misanthrope but you speak the language of an emotionally abusive person.

            The second is that Col_Conran never stated that men were not pressured in the porn industry. He/she merely stated that there are females pressured into anal scenes (which is supported by documentary evidence), that there are STD risks to certain types of sex (which there are), and that in their professional experience that they have seen situations where individuals (they chose to note females) have come into their place of work in need of medical attention as the result of their engagement of anal sex. Perhaps we can not conclude that their boyfriends got the anal sex idea from pornography, so there is an assumption. However, you are assuming that because Col_Conran only mentions females that he/she feels a certain way or has a certain opinion about males in the porn industry. You can bring up the topic yourself, but to accuse Col_Conran of having certain views about males in the porn industry when there is no evidence of this doesn’t seem logical. Again it seems emotional.

            Built off of the last point, the third problem with your statement is an inconsistency in the statement itself. Ignorant does not mean intellectually incapable but to not know certain information (I am clarifying – I am sure you know what ignorant means). You mention that Col_Conran is cherry picking information about the porn industry. How does an ignorant person, as your are stating Col_Conran doesn’t have enough knowledge of some topic which we can only assume is the porn industry, cherry pick information. They are either knowledgeable and cherry pick – leaving out information on purpose, or merely presenting what they know. Your type of statement would explode a computer due to the logical inconsistencies. “You are cherry picking (purposely choosing) information because you are ignorant.”

            Hopefully this helps you next time you comment and you won’t have to sucker punch someone with a shot at their self-worth before you make your comment. I also hope that in the future you take more time to consider possible misunderstandings or biases you have before you make any thoughtful contributions.

            Also, as I see your comments further, next time try something like asking Col_Conran if he/she has seen any similar medical issues with male patients and how frequently each occurs. Plus it’s not a smoke screen as I doubt Col_Conran is part of the International Board of the Rectal Tearing Conspiracy.

          • sllab xussulpg

            Please. The tone and content of Col_Conran’s posts clearly painted it as a female problem. My point is you can’t claim inequality if men are likewise victimized, particularly in an activity they voluntarily participate in. And it’s particularly ironic and telling when women complain about victimization in an industry where they are largely in control. It’s as ridiculous as an NFL Quarterback claiming he’s being victimized by the cheerleaders.

          • 8800

            Hate to burst your bubble but men hardly ever get forced into gay porn…. especially if they are gay to begin with… they do it for money PERIOD and unlike the women they like it most of the time. I have yet to know a woman who has ever enjoyed anal with a complete stranger not to mention its gross thats somthing you do once in a while with someone you know is clean and know isnt going to have a smelly ass!

          • michal kucera

            Again, why does she do it, then? There is nobody holding a gun against her head. She can refuse anal sex, she can refuse working in porn industry…Why are men blamed for this? And if a person really gets to the situation that is forced to work in sex industry, that is of course bad….But to these situation get men and women alike. I think that the porn industry has been a bad example of this thread of comments since the beginning….and yes I find the comment starting:

            “Rubbish, the most aggressive group are misogynistic men who just hate women. Why to you think the Porn industry makes so much money, it thrives on men that love to dominate, humiliate & hurt women.”

            as one sided and emotionally colored…

          • Vedic

            There is some of that in the porn industry, some would say most of it, maybe, maybe not. But certainly it has been an advertisement to abuse and abuse women especially.

          • John m

            Thank you for the great comment. Men are blamed for porn while women have a decision. It is true though that men should not watch / look at porn as it drives them away from family. Also it is the woman taunting the man with her body that drives men to look at porn, if no one had invented porn and revealing clothing in the first place then there likely wouldn’t be a problem. Men are made to have sexual desires so that they reproduce. Some people of both genders took advantage of that and came up with porn.

          • deblehdebleh

            And speaking of misandrist ventures let us start with the institution marriage. I really doubt that bullshit statistic you pulled out of your ass like a pornhub buttplug is real, but I think if there is any truth to, it is due to the woman’s inability to grasp that fact that most men are able to simultaneously love their wives while lust for their mistresses. Its the reason why men are more inclined to commit adultery which I would think would trump that one fallacious tidbit of info you managed to heave up from wherever.
            The last time I heard of someone commit to a rehabilitation center for an ongoing porn addiction was….never…But that’s not to overlook what it’s doing to the average person who becomes addicted.
            And about that gross anal thing you mentioned….I do believed the girl played a part in that…the submissive part I would say….so before you dismiss the urban legend of submissiveness in a real life circumstance as a hoax like North Dakota or BigFoot….remember the submissive streak does
            exist…inside the hearts and err…discharged bowels…..of us all.
            I searched for those documentaries but didn’t see anything on netflix.

          • Col_Conran

            I guess you just love to ramble on & on !!.
            Anyway lets get a bit more factual here, I’m a nurse & believe me we repair both male & females when their bowel lining comes out from too vigorous thrusting on the part of the “giver” but hey I guess he’s just having some fun right !!
            Porn addiction is well documented go to “your porn brain” & read the comments.
            Hey & you know what, I couldn’t give a shit if you love porn or not, it’s not my problem, I only deal with facts, something you seem to lack.

          • michal kucera

            well and this is exactly, why a reasonable conversation is not possible….blaming, attempts to insult the counter-partner, no attempt to understand the other point of view….and the conversation goes down to well known spiral – I am right, you are wrong way of communication….

          • Col_Conran

            Well, this is why reasonable facts get lost on some people.
            You are just too judgmental of people yourself to ever get what the conversation is even about.
            I supplied facts on my nursing experience, you supply nothing but judgment.
            You need to fix your judgmental attitude & your habit of speaking for everyone & then you’ll be taken seriously!!

          • michal kucera

            I wish you happiness! :)

          • ATableHasLegs

            Not finding it on Netflix doesn’t mean anything other than you being too lazy to properly research…

          • Vedic

            Yes and some men have been raped in porn as well as the women. feminist Movement started because of the thousands of years women had been oppressed by males, it’s a percentage nature thing i’m afraid, no one needed to set up a maleists group, females needed it badly, that’s why we have feminism and not maleism.

          • guest

            Here’s what I know, butter britches.
            When a womyn identifies as a feminist, I immediately feel no obligation for anything. If said womyn lay bleeding to death in the gutter, I would step over it and go about my business.
            If it starts a ruckus, I’m there to show it true equality. No guilt, no problem, no concern. In fact, it should be grateful that I let it live.

          • Col_Conran

            Yes, I’ve heard that’s the MRA motto & that’s why the world takes zero notice of the misogynist male rights movement. Bunch of brain dead twits. And how about you learn to spell. What the hell is a “womyn”. I guess you’re talking about some other species FOOL

          • NovaBurn

            I pretty sure Womyn was coined by feminists.

          • Col_Conran

            We’ll, I’m a feminist & never heard of it, but I can understand women wanting to take the word man out of woman. Not sure Womyn is the way to go & please give me the name of the woman who coined this name ? Just interested to know.

          • keine rhobar

            evil feminist go crawl back under your rock

          • Guest

            you sound like a total jerk & I doubt any woman would even spit on you if you were on fire !!

          • keine rhobar

            “When a womyn identifies as a feminist, I immediately feel no obligation
            for anything. If said womyn lay bleeding to death in the gutter, I would
            step over it and go about my business.”
            I would do the same

          • Guest

            Brain Dead Wanker

          • sdrake

            That’s terrible.

          • sdrake

            Your comment is equally bad.

          • sdrake

            I share your disdain for feminists but voted you down because of your comment that you would leave one bleeding if found in the gutter. Compassion should be extended to everyone.

          • Guest

            Agree, the porn industry has a lot to answer for. It has put pressure on women to preform in the bedroom & has given men a warped view of relationships. Porn has taken something that is beautiful between a man & a woman & turned it into a circus.

          • Pvblivs

            “Why do you think the porn industry makes so much money?”

            Because most men don’t really have access to sex. And they settle for a fantasy. It is an alternate means of release. Feminists hate it BECAUSE it is an alternate means of release. They want men to be serving them.

          • Col_Conran

            You do realize Porn is the main reason for “Erectile Dysfunction”in young men.

            More & more young men can’t preform in a normal relationship as porn has rewired their brain, look it up yourbrainonporn.com/erectile-dysfunction-and-porn?

            The only women who care about this are non – feminists as their the ones who need men desperately, feminists have their own lives to live with or without a man.

            So on your theory about feminists hating porn you couldn’t be further from the truth, your only hurting your “IDEAL WOMAN”.

          • Pvblivs

            If you are trying to tell me feminists think porn is a good thing, prove it. Otherwise, my theory on feminism and porn is quite correct.

            It’s a dirty little secret that feminists don’t like to admit. They want men to do the heavy lifting and pay the bills. But they don’t want men around as actual people. In order to get that condition they want, they need men to be willing to do anything for the hope of sex; they need men not to have any other outlets. Then, after men do the work and pay the bills, they can talk among themselves about how they don’t need men.

            I speak inconvenient truths. Feminists don’t like it and downvote my comments. But if I were WRONG, I would get no downvotes. And more importantly, if I were wrong, feminists would not object to the porn industry. But you do. You make all kinds of excuses. But the fact that you are even interested in erectile dysfunction (I’m not) shows that you have a problem with men being “removed from the market.”

          • Col_Conran

            haha, the women you talk about using men etc, are non-feminists…lol

            You need to find out what a feminist women is & how she thinks.

            Women who use men to pay for them, do all the work for them while they stay home & budge are NON- FEMINISTS.

            So since you don’t like feminists you should be pleased to be with a NON-FEMINIST (yet you still complain) .

            Feminists want to earn their own money, pay for themselves, provide for their own future, work with their husbands to combine incomes to achieve in life together.

            You are one funny person, your hating what NON-FEMINSTS do & blaming feminists for it.

            Go do research & please try to get educated, your missing out on life with total incorrect information.

            You were saying in an earlier post that porn was there for men who don’t have access to sex & I have no problem with that. Why do they need it when they have a relationship ??? that makes a joke out of your statement.

            Look I don’t care if you are addicted to porn or not, it’s not my problem it’s yours.
            BUT your ideal non-feminst woman isn’t going to be too happy if your spending all your time masturbating to a computer screen & not able to preform properly in bed, but again that’s your problem !!

          • Pvblivs

            Oh, you talk a good talk. But the women who want to use and abuse men, then throw them out and keep their money are FEMINISTS. They don’t want the man AROUND. They just want him paying the bills from far, far away.

            “You were saying in an earlier post that porn was there for men who don’t have access to sex”

            Actually, I said it does so WELL because most men don’t have access to sex. The producers don’t really care who buys their content or why.

            “You need to find out what a feminist women is & how she thinks.”

            I already know what feminist women are and how they think. They think men are sub-human, laboring animals to be exploited. They call anyone who objects to this “misogynist” as you did about the men’s rights movement. You see, I did do the research. And I didn’t confine my research to what feminists want me to see.

            Feminists make a big deal about the fact that most CEOs are men. They completely ignore the fact that most homeless are men, most road-workers are men, most workplace deaths are men, most garbage collectors are men, and on and on. They don’t care about that. Men have undesirable conditions and they think that’s the way it should be.

            Feminists fight to close women’s prisons. (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/report-proposes-closing-womens-prisons-2293495.html) Now, while I do not disagree with rehabilitation or alternatives to incarceration, I have to ask why alternatives are only for women. The answer is quite plain. Men are seen as disposable.

            “Feminists want to earn their own money, pay for themselves, provide for their own future, work with their husbands to combine incomes to achieve in life together.”

            That’s very funny. Feminist sites do talk about dating — and how they still expect the man to pay. After all, she is doing him a favor just by showing up. Feminists will SAY they want equality. But they are very selective about where they want equality.

          • Col_Conran

            Total & utter RUBBISH..

            You’re a self absorbed twit.

            You wouldn’t have a clue what a feminist is & never will,
            so don’t even bother with your one sided CRAP.

            All these jobs you talk about with men getting hurt etc, are jobs that if women apply they are rejected or given a very hard time from the males working there. Check out the armed forces & how unwelcome women are there ??

            Men are MORE violent, everyday on the news it’s
            “a man’s done this”
            “a man’s done that”
            ” a man’s killed some one”
            ” a man’s shot someone”
            ” a man’s king hit some one”
            ” a man’s raped some one”
            “a man’s killed his family then shot himself”
            ” a man’s gone on a shooting rampage & killed a group of people”

            & then out of no where you’ll hear a woman’s been arrested & everyone stops & goes wow women are getting violent.

            90% of the violence is male & men are much harder to reform in prison & have a high re offend rate, women are less likely to re offend.

            There is no denying men have caused the miseries in the world & continue to do so. If women did all the things men have done men would be horrified & want justice ASAP.

            NOW a real feminist wants to help men make a fairer world for everyone, not budge off men, they want to be independent in their own right.

            AND you keep crapping on about what NON-FEMINIST women do!! you will never get it, go live a naive life & keep blaming everyone else for your own personal problems & please enjoy your addiction to PORN & I hope you can still get it up in the bedroom your poor non-feminist woman deserves some happiness….

          • Pvblivs

            “Men are MORE violent, everyday on the news it’s”

            Feminist propaganda. Women are also violent. It just tends not to be reported because “that would be misogynist.” When a woman commits a violent crime, it won’t be reported at all until it goes to trial.

            “so don’t even bother with your one sided…”

            You are the one who has been rather one-sided.

            “NOW a real feminist wants to help men make a fairer world for everyone”

            Feminists keep SAYING that. But it’s all just talk. Show me one feminist who has lobbied to end no-fault divorce and alimony.

            “There is no point in replying to you anymore…I’m done !!”

            If that’s your response to someone not drinking the Kool-Aid, don’t let the door hit you on the way out.

          • truth guest

            You are totally wrong & very misinformed.

            I work in the media & we get our tip offs from the police & the general public.
            My male collegues if they find female crime will give it twice the media coverage & if anything under report males crime. So you are wrong & very delusional !!

          • Pvblivs

            Which is why you came right out and gave an example of an accused woman being plastered all over the news who never went to trial. Oh, wait, you didn’t. Well, maybe you gave an example of such reported long before it went to trial. Uh, nope, didn’t do that either.

            How about you find me a woman that the media are hounding as badly as they are George Zimmerman. Or you could have nothing to back your claim and just call me “delusional.”

          • truth guest

            Mate did you even read the article your commenting on. Giving one example doesn’t make it the norm.
            You’re very misinformed & mate you’re embarrassing yourself.
            Look I’m a dude & believe me if there was all this female crime out there mate, I’d be the first reporting it…IT’S NOT THERE !!
            If anything we down play male crime.
            Trying to say women are as violent is just total bullshit, sure there will be the occasional & it’s usually more petty crime, but that doesn’t make it the same as men.
            We report to what is there everyday & everyday a lot of guys are fucking up, sorry if that doesn’t suit your woman hating agenda, but that’s the facts.
            I’m not sure what world your living in, but it’s not the real one & not the same one I’m living in & reporting on !!

          • Pvblivs

            Giving one example may not make something the norm. But it is infinitely better than giving NO examples and calling those who disagree with you “delusional.”

            I didn’t give a comparison as to whether women were “as violent” or not. I just pointed out that women ARE violent, but that it tends not to get reported. YouTube is crawling with examples of female violence that, somehow, never got reported in mainstream media. Apparently, anyone who records such things and exposes the dirty little secret is a “woman hater.”

            I live in the real world. But I will agree that it is not the world you live in and “report on.” I don’t have a woman-hating agenda. But I do recognize that we live in a society that prefers to cover up wrongdoings done by women. They’re there. Some even (eventually) get reported. But, as I said, it’s never reported as early on.

            A violent crime done by a woman will get reported once it finally goes to trial and the media can ignore it no longer. But I’m sure you can find examples of that yourself. When a man is so much as accused, the media run with it right away. Accused men have been plastered all over the news. Some of them don’t even get charged because there is not enough evidence. Accused women are not reported until the case goes to trial. Go ahead, find an example where the media have reported on an accused — but not indicted — woman.

          • truth guest

            We don’t report it because it isn’t THERE !! when it is there believe me we run with the female crime & plaster it everywhere.

            Do you understand, there is no conspiracy, you have mental issues & I can see why people stop replying to you.
            Giving one example is nothing, I can give you more than one example of male violence, I can give you 1000′s because it is more there everyday, that’s why you see it reported EVERYDAY.
            Look mate you are a fool & an embarrassment to men in general & that’s the end of it !!

          • Pvblivs

            I understand quite well. You’re lying to me. You are saying that, with women, there is no accusation, no investigation, prior to the trial. That’s when it finally gets reported And there have been instances that have been recorded that never made the mainstream media. And I’ve SEEN some of these recordings because these days people can publish what the mainstream media won’t.

            But you’ll keep lying to me and say that women are NEVER violent. It’s not that I don’t understand what you are saying. It’s that I believe my own eyes over you.

            Now, the way news media work on most things is that common events are not reported — they are not considered newsworthy. In every major city, there is at least one car accident every single day. It doesn’t make the news because it happens all the time.

            You are desperate. That’s why you keep trying to convince me that I am a “fool” and an “embarrassment.” BUT… if you were REALLY in journalism and ran with reports of female violence (as you claim) it should be EASY for you to give an example where an accused female was plastered all over the news before there was ever an indictment. And you would have done that, instead of calling me an embarrassment.

            But you’ve got nothing. All you can do is name-calling. And if I really were wrong, you would never have turned to that. And that’s the deal. Your attempt to shame me is an implicit admission that you know I am right.

          • truth guest

            Look in the mirror…you’re looking at a total dickhead !! & that’s the end of any further comment to you !!

          • Pvblivs

            You’re confused. It is people like you, who rely on insult who fit your description. I remember a saying “When the law is on your side, hammer the law. When the facts are on your side, hammer the facts. And when nothing is on your side, hammer the table.” You are doing an excellent job of hammering the table.

          • WhiteXianMale

            truth guest…..Be nice. Not to assume you don’t know what it means to antagonize somebody, but in case you didn’t:
            “to provoke someone to react angrily”

            I assume you’re smart enough to know that your comment was doing just that, so please refrain from unnecessarily fanning flames of resentment. You’re only hurting your cause, ultimately.

          • sdrake

            Wow. Conrad, how many accounts do you have?

          • Natasha

            What the fuck does George Zimmerman have to do with feminism? All it shows is that you are clearly grasping at straws because of your “feminists hate men” non-argument.

            On that note, don’t tell ME what *I* think, please. You’re not a mind reader.

            Incoming long-winded spiel that will educate you, and other “anti-feminists”.

            I’m a feminist because I’m tired of being called a “bitch”, “cunt”, “whore” and a host of other extremely sexist, misogynist language by some men (and even some women) every time I speak about politics, and dare to have an opinion of my own. I think my opinions should be attacked and not my gender.

            I’m a feminist because when I was younger, I was paid HALF of the wage the boy was making, doing the same job, during the same hours, delivering the exact same amount of newspapers. I think women should make equal pay, for equal work.

            I’m a feminist because I don’t think my body, and therefore my whole being, should be shamed because it doesn’t fit societies standard of beauty. Yes, I am overweight. Does that make me a bad human being? According to a lot of sexist people, YES. I mean, how dare I be “unattractive” and not please the eyesight of men!!!! And please, don’t try to say that men suffer the same discrimination to the same degree, BECAUSE THEY DON’T. See here: jazeraca.tumblr.com for examples.

            I’m feminist because I’m against misogynist language that may seem to be attacking men, but really attacks women. Calling a man a “pussy” or a “girl” as an insult is SEXIST against women. Telling men that “stop crying like a little girl” is also sexist. I don’t think my gender should be used as an insult against men. Oh, and someone telling a man to “grow a pair” or “be a man” is also sexist against women.

            I’m feminist because I want to have sex, and enjoy it, without being called a “whore” or a “slut” while men are praised, instead of vilified, for “nailing her.”

            I am feminist because I’m tired of religious people and misogynists trying to take away my right to control what happens inside to my own body.

            And last, but not least, I am feminist because I believe that women should be treated with fairness and equality. not because I hate men (I don’t. At all. I believe most men are good at heart), or want to see some sort of mystical matriarchal society where men are inferior slaves that only exist to server the whimsical (lol) or because we see women as perfect (haha, hardly), and men as evil (NOPE). And definitely not because we think all men are rapists (no logical, rational person will ever make that argument. How absurd).

            Feminists are tired of your strawmans such as that since we don’t talk about women being drafted, we therefore seek some sort of extra privilege. Feminists don’t talk about the draft because in the West IT DOESN’T HAPPEN ANY LONGER, and if it did, most of us not only would be opposed to women being drafted, but men as well! That is why we don’t talk about it, because we are against the draft, period! So no, they shouldn’t draft women, but they also shouldn’t draft men, either. See? Equality. :)

            I also saw your allegation that NoW has been working hard in the US to ensure that mothers always get custody of their children. I looked at NoW’s website, and couldn’t see evidence of any such thing, so I’m just going to more anti-feminist slander. But even if they did, NoW certainly doesn’t speak for all feminists!

            But speaking of mothers automatically getting custody, that may be the case (I haven’t researched it enough) but if it is, it’s probably because of the sexist attitude (against women, not men, mind you) that sticks women into traditional gender roles, where women are automatically the full-time caregivers of children. So yes, sexism against women hurts men too. Speaking of this whole custody thing, I think the parent that is more fit to take care of the children, should be awarded custody, IF the two cannot decide on their own. So if the mother is somehow unfit, then yes, the father should get custody. See? More equality for you. :)

            Yes, misandry exists. Not very many people will deny that, even feminists. However, to say it is institutional and systemic like misogyny is, is a falsehood that stems from either ignorance, or an outright lie.

            It’s a shame that feminism, and therefore feminist, has become such dirty words. Unfortunately, this has been happening for centuries, by the men that benefit from the systemic oppression of women. And even more shameful, even more women, and men, have bought the notion that feminism is based on the hatred of men, even though they themselves are feminists on principle!

            One last note, http://www.dictionary.com defines feminism as: a doctrine or movement that advocates equal rights for women. Are you still against feminism? Are feminists still all “man-haters”? If you think so, I really have no purpose in talking to you, because quite clearly you support the oppression of me and other women.

            Hope that cleared everything up.

          • Pvblivs

            I didn’t say that Zimmerman had anything to do with feminism. He’s just someone that the media hound relentlessly, looking to claim that he is dangerous. And he can’t be established as having done anything wrong.

            But according to feminist propaganda, media are biased against women. If the feminists are right, there should be women that the media treat in the same way.

            “Incoming long-winded spiel that will [indoctrinate] you, and other ‘anti-feminists’”

            I have no desire for indoctrination. The mere claim that non-feminists need to be “educated” will rub people the wrong way.

            “Feminists don’t talk about the draft because in the West IT DOESN’T HAPPEN ANY LONGER,”

            Mandatory registration for it still happens. If and when they decide they need the bodies, it WILL happen. And since registration is men-only the draft will be men-only.

            “Yes, misandry exists. Not very many people will deny that, even feminists.”

            There are enough such people that for several days the Wikipedia page just said “Misandry doesn’t exist.” There are quite a few YouTube videos denying its very existence. But that may well be a vocal minority. But the bigger problem isn’t people specifically denying the existence of misandry. It’s that people don’t NOTICE it unless it is explicitly pointed out. On television, if a man gets hit by a car it is played for laughs. If someone did the same with a woman hit by a car, people would be disgusted.

            “One last note, http://www.dictionary.com defines feminism”

            I am aware that feminism enjoys good publicity and such false definitions. I make my determination of feminism based on what I see it DO. Feminists always trot out a dictionary definition instead. I still believe my own eyes first.

            “because quite clearly you support the oppression of me and other women”

            You are the one applying the double-standard. You told me not to tell you what you think. Then you turn right around and make claims about what I think. Well, you are not entitled to speak for me. You can only speak for yourself. So your statement must apply to yourself.

            You say it’s a shame that feminism is considered such a dirty word. Let someone who considers feminism a dirty word tell you why that is. It’s because we see such blatant hypocrisy from feminists. They talk about work around the home being done by women (which would be all right in itself) but explicitly say things usually done by men (repairs and maintenance, mowing the lawn, heavy lifting for redecorating, etc.) “don’t count.”

            When I made my list of things feminists ignore because they are focused on CEOs, soldiers were only part of the “etc.” There are plenty of dirty, unwanted occupations that feminists are more than happy to leave to the men. After all, these are things that women shouldn’t be expected to do because “women are better than men.”

            When you wanted to “support” your claim that men don’t have it as bad as women, you produced an explicitly feminist site. When the banner says “Why I am a feminist,” neutrality is not to be expected.

          • Dr137cyoutube

            “for a few days the page said “Misandry doesn’t exist”
            Found it:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Misandry&diff=501813325&oldid=501012459

          • WhiteXianMale

            Ahh, bra… This forum has been quite entertaining and I’ve been with you on so many arguments until this post:

            1) “On television, if a man gets hit by a car it is played for laughs. If
            someone did the same with a woman hit by a car, people would be
            disgusted.”

            Check out how the character “Dee” is treated in the sitcom “It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia.” She get’s beat up and hated on just as much as the guys do and it’s hilarious (in my opinion). Another example of this phenomenon: the way Meg is treated in Family Guy, arguably one of the most beloved cartoons in America.

            My point being that, and perhaps this may come off a tad persnickety, you have to dig pretty deep into femi-nazi reviews and their respective femi-nazi demographic who make their site seem popular to Search Engines (and thereby more readily accessible to the common web-surfer), to find any expressed disgust against such humor. So when you say “people” would be disgusted, I think you are overgeneralizing a tad, unfortunately to the detriment of your argument.

            I agree that Femi-nazi reviews of just about anything that is funny exclusively to men are nerving (yet, I will admit, quite stimulating and therefore in many ways beneficial to my drive to better inform myself, if only for the purpose of defeating their arguments). But you negate your intellectual superiority, and strengthen your opponents’ claim that you are may be misidentifying feminists as misandrists.

            Parallel Reasoning:

            “People wouldn’t find it disgusting, femi-nazis would”
            with
            “People wouldn’t burn a cross in front of a black family’s porch, the KKK would.”,

          • Pvblivs

            No. When I say “people,” I mean people. There is an instinctive drive to protect women in general and we do react differently when something happens to an unknown man and when the same thing happens to an unknown woman. And, yes, I react differently too.

            Incidentally, when something shows up on the first page of a Google search, you DON’T have to dig deep. Even if you think it is rare, it is conspicuous.

          • WhiteXianMale

            “I am aware that feminism enjoys good publicity and such false
            definitions. I make my determination of feminism based on what I see it
            DO. Feminists always trot out a dictionary definition instead. I
            still believe my own eyes first.”

            Beautiful. I love this argument. Seriously. Not even trolling right now. One might think I’m trolling based on my name. But I resent that. Being a white Christian male does not nullify the potential validity of my opinion…it can only be the grounds for suspicion of bias….

          • ThinkPink414

            And a white woman would have been hounded equally.

          • Pvblivs

            Well, then, it should be easy for you to identify a woman who HAS been hounded equally. So there is no need for “would have.”

          • ATableHasLegs

            Again, look at the cases of: Schapelle Corby, Casey Anthony and Lindy Chamberlain. Those are just a few off the top of my head.

          • sdrake

            The ad hominems that people call feminists are largely well-deserved, Natasha. You’ve earned it.

          • sllab xussulpg

            Do you think that men don’t get called “asshole”, “cock sucker”, “dickhead” etc. when they express their opinions? No, we simply soldier on, because when you express your opinion you take all kinds of fair and unfair flack for it, and it really has nothing to do with your gender. It has to do with the people who disagree will try to take you down any way they can.

            Do you think men don’t get made fun of for being fat? Where is the long line of thin women lining up to date the fat men? Far more often I see the thin guy with the fat woman.

            Oh, and speaking of “not fitting societies standards of beauty”, woman are more discriminatory against short men than men are about ANY physical aspect of a woman.

            Your bad paper route experience is why you hate men? Really? Your little kid job? I had to leave a job once because my boss was a tyrant. A real grown up job, too, that was crucial to earning a living. She happened to be a woman. Do I now have justification for hating all women?

            You are sadly a too typical “feminist”. Your life sucks and you need someone to blame it on. You picked men. YAY FEMINISM

          • OfficialPro

            that paper route must have been a gazillion years ago. Natasha had to have been delivering papers when the dinosaurs were still stomping around for it to have been half of what a boy got.

            This does not happen today.

          • ThinkPink414

            Not men. Men with unfair view on how women should be treated. I will not be the stair for you to step on my back to reach your thrown so that you can look down on me. Simple as that.

            I’ll hold the door for you at the gas station and a thank you would be nice. Just as I would say thank you for holding it for me. In other words, common decency and respect as we are equal here. Get it?

          • ATableHasLegs

            I agree with you, there are double standards when it comes to females, males and their weight. I was more overweight than I am now and I was in love with my male friend whom I’d guess had about the same BMI as myself, though he was unhealthier as I was making an effort to eat and be more healthy whereas he didn’t care so much, especially when it came to alcohol, cigarettes and weed (not that I have anything against weed if it’s used for medicinal purposes or you can control your personal use of it so it doesn’t affect how you interpret reality or treat other people and yourself). Anyway according to one of my female friends’ dad who knew us both, I should lose 10kgs and get contact lenses…

          • DC

            The issue is right there in the definition of the word. “A doctrine or movement that advocates equal rights for women.” It doesn’t matter if you SAY feminism is about ALL rights, because right in the the word, it is clearly dictated that it IS NOT. If you want to advocate for everyone’s rights, then you should be part of a humanist group – not a feminist one. If you can’t leave feminism for equality, then that is just a statement about how closed off that group truly is (a specific demographic wanting to control the fluctuation of human rights between ALL demographics while taking the focus and applying it only to their own issues, rather than equally applying them to all groups involved.) Not to mention, if feminism truly is an equal rights movement, and the title is one of the reasons it is getting crapped on so much, why haven’t they changed the title to better clarify their goals. To me, these things are all indicative of a power hungry, inadvertently seclusive group of tyrants who want to be the prophets for all, but aren’t willing to give any on their part to make us all feel at ease with what it is they are trying to accomplish. It’s like a boy’s soccer team. Maybe a girl could be allowed to play on the same team if she went through the proper channels – but what girl is going to try to join a club that is clearly stated to have a preference for males? The same applies to feminism. What man in his right mind would want to be part of a FEMINist group? If anything, a simple change from the word feminist to the word humanist could go a long way in clearing up the built up bad rep.

          • Sis

            Anneli Auer’s case in Finland.

          • ATableHasLegs

            Here are a few names: Schapelle Corby, Casey Anthony, Lindy Chamberlain (you wouldn’t know Schapelle Corby or Lindy Chamberlain cos they’re Aussies…)

          • Pvblivs

            Casey Anthony only turned up in the news once a trial was underway. Remember, I said “example of an accused woman being plastered all over the news who never went to trial.”

          • sllab xussulpg

            Yup, and when men and women commit the same crimes, the man is far more likely to go to jail while the woman will get probation. There are several studies verifying this. Here is one of them:

            A 2001 University of Georgia
            study found substantial disparity in criminal sentencing men and women
            received “after controlling for extensive criminological, demographic,
            and socioeconomic variables”. The study found that “blacks and males
            are… less likely to get no prison term when that option is available;
            less likely to receive downward departures [from the guidelines]; and
            more likely to receive upward adjustments and, conditioned on having a
            downward departure, receive smaller reductions than whites and females”

            http://www.terry.uga.edu/~mustard/sentencing.pdf

          • Sis

            Well… Not true. Males are more violent. Ks. My upper comment. ^

          • ThinkPink414

            Not saying women dont hit men because I have seen it. But you ever stop to think maybe it don’t come out til trial (your words) because it didn’t happen and he is trying to justify it? No way right? He’s a man. You’re a man. Man is right. Man tells truth. Woman bad. Caveman mentality at its best!

          • Pvblivs

            “Caveman mentality at its best!”

            I suppose it would be… if “man tells truth; woman bad” were actually my argument — or even a claim I made. Your argument did not address mine. But thanks for trying.

          • Theo Devine

            Men are more Violent its on the news…..wow..

          • Anonymous

            Most women do really Stink nowadays.

          • Sis

            Reason for why males do those wiolent crimes (was it 90%) is that in those cultures males are dominet or are portaid as “more powerfull genre”. (I am Finnish male… So… I know what I am talking about when it comes to this. In Finland all 18 old males must go to military servise. [I never has been that strong male that females want or that hardworking roadworker type. I am more or less that nerdy filosophy type]).

          • Sis

            You should change all feminists from that comment to man haters. Then it would be accurate.

          • Pvblivs

            I am not aware of any man-haters who are not feminists. As far as I can tell, they are the same group.

          • ThinkPink414

            You contradict yourself alot. One minute these feminist are lazy couch hugging slobs that don’t want to work and want the man to do it all. The next these same women are out hitting the pavement fighting to take the jobs from these men? Are they lazy or do they want fairness and equality in the workplace?

            If men are so superior and harder working than women -they should have the labor intensive/ dirty jobs so the feminist can earn their own keep in the cushy desk jobs.

            Make up your mind because your contant flip-floppy arguments are kind of irritating. And your ADHD is showing along with your a$$hole!

          • Pvblivs

            No. I don’t contradict myself at all. Feminists want men to do the actual work. But they want the title, the prestige, and the paycheck for themselves. There is no contradiction.

          • ghost

            I don’t have a problem with women in general but you are a bitch.

          • ThinkPink414

            Oh no!.. the little ghost boy hurt my feelings – how can I get through the day after some ahole called me a bitch? Oh that’s right… bitch = result. Like it or not, having the audacity to stand up for myself has and will continue to let me get where I want to go. You see little boy, I don’t care about what you think. I care about results.

            I fight for what is right. I fight for women, men, children, and anything else I feel the need to. I didn’t label myself a “feminist” or join a group. Controlling and/or misinformed men, scared of losing authority, coined that term for me. I don’t label myself as anything. I am however, one of the most logical people you could meet: therefore, I see both/all sides of an issue. I have faught for men’s rights to custody and child support more than women, not because they’re men, but because these particular men were the better choice over the ex. The “bitch” in me has helped many individuals to recieve fair and adequate treatment in and out of court.

            I don’t know you and you don’t know me but I can guarantee you are correct… I am a “bitch” in the ‘I don’t give a shit if you like it or not -but it’s fair’ sort of way. I would fight against my own sister in court, if it is for what is right – and I have.

            Aside from my actual reason of accepting that I am a “bitch,” what reason did I give you in my comment above? I told the commenter “pvblivs” that he contradicts himself a lot and he is an ass, correct? What part of that comment can bug you so badly that you felt the need to take time out of your, high and mighty, measely little life? You don’t know me but you have a problem with me: the problem you have is not with women generally, but your automatic insult to a women you know nothing about is that I am a “bitch.” You obviously have more angst toward women than you care to admit. Bye now.

          • ThinkPink414

            Oh no!.. you are trying to hurt my feelings – how can I get through the day after some ahole called me a bitch? Oh that’s right… bitch = result. Like it or not, having the audacity to stand up for myself, has and will continue to let me get where I want to go. You see little boy, I don’t care about what you think. I care about results.

            I fight for what is right. I fight for women, men, children, and anything else I feel the need to. I didn’t label myself a “feminist” or join a group. Controlling and/or misinformed men, scared of losing authority, coined that term for me. I don’t label myself as anything. I am however, one of the most logical people you could meet: therefore, I see both/all sides of an issue. I have faught for men’s rights to custody and child support more than women, not because they’re men, but because these particular men were the better choice over the ex. The “bitch” in me has helped many individuals to recieve fair and adequate treatment in and out of court.

            I don’t know you and you don’t know me but I can guarantee you are correct… I am a “bitch” in the ‘I don’t give a shit if you like it or not -but it’s fair’ sort of way. I would fight against my own sister in court, if it is for what is right – and I have.

            Aside from my actual reason of accepting that I am a “bitch,” what reason did I give you in my comment above? I told the commenter “pvblivs” that he contradicts himself a lot and he is an ass, correct? What part of that comment can bug you so badly that you felt the need to take time out of your, high and mighty, measely little life? You don’t know me but you have a problem with me: the problem you have is not with women generally, but your automatic insult to a women you know nothing about is that I am a “bitch.” You obviously have more angst toward women than you care to admit. Bye now.

          • michal kucera

            Why are you so aggressive? See? This is why people do not like feminists….or man-haters or whatever you identify with….you are not trying to fight for equal rights, you are just trying to be offensive here and win the argue for the all costs….If you keep hurting feelings of people, do not expect to be heard or liked….

          • Col_Conran

            Read the post I was replying to before you judge anybody.
            “This is why people don’t like feminists”
            Who are you to say what everyone likes & dislikes. See!! you need to just speak for yourself & only yourself. If you keep speaking for everyone don’t expect people to take you seriously !!

          • sravll

            Blah blah “They” all all individuals with separate and different beliefs, just like you!

          • ThinkPink414

            “If I were wrong I would get no downvotes”

            That is the most moronic thing you said. By downvoting we would be acknowledging this as fact? By not voting we are seemingly not in disagreement? And by upvoting we would be agreeing? How can that be? You are saying pretty much “I’m right and you cannot disagree. ”

            Aside from that, you are spewing crap out… feminist want men to need them and have no other outlet? I guess I would be considered a feminist because I believe I deserve what rights you have. I am happily married to the most amazing man. He has plenty of outlets and is more than welcome to watch porn (I even watch w/ him occasionally) . He has guns I bought as gifts. Every game for xbox he wants. 4wheelers, go kart, hangs with his friends, and he works his hands to the bone. We are best friends and enjoy all these outlets together too. Difference is simply, he is a good man regardless of what he gets in return vs the type of man you speak of.

            You dont know what a feminist is. You are misguided and misinformed. A certain type of woman hates porn for her reasons just as a certain type of guy hates his lady going anywhere without him. This is not all women or all men.

            Stop spreading garbage like you have some secret into the minds of females. All females do not think alike just as all males don’t. And thankfully so because my hubby is my bestfriend and if he thought like you my world (and my son’s) would be a darker place.

          • Pvblivs

            “That is the most moronic thing you said.”

            It’s good to know that everything I have said is intelligent.

            “By downvoting we would be acknowledging this as fact?”

            By downvoting, you object to the fact that I said something and indicate that you didn’t want it to be heard. It is not a mere disagreement — although it is not uncommon for feminists to want to censor dissent. The particular claim I made is such that, if I were wrong, feminists would not object. Feminists seek to control men. If they didn’t, they wouldn’t care about my comment at all and wouldn’t bother to vote it down.

          • Sis

            Stop talking as a group (feminists). You are merly making things up (not based on eny real facts or good logical thinking). You just have your own black and white oppinions. So… You say that only non feminist need men desperately? What about men? Not all feminists are female you know. Stop talking about porn allready. Sex business is its own thing (like tobacco buisness. You do realize that tobacco is main reason for necotine addiktion.). And by the way. Theory that why feminists hate porn… Yea… Stupid idea… I am with you whith that one. (Porn should be hated. From all fronts. [sorry sexworkers])

          • michal kucera

            Not speaking about porn industry now….! Yes, I agree with this one. Women hold monopoly in sex supply (read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_economy) , so they have the option of choice to whom they provide it and for what….the alternatives of men (the “buyer”, whose nature is to want sex from the evolutionary point of view): are:

            - free porn (Fortunately!)
            - getting a hooker (if possible with her full consent and not trafficked one – in US, such deed is illegal)
            - sleeping around (so he is not to be blackmailed by shortening the sex supply from one particular woman – girlfriend, wife), and thus reducing the demand for sex from the one particular woman)
            - accepting whatever the price is (which usually means – go and work hard in gym to get muscles, climb in the society – to leader, manager, doctor, lawyer, soldier or get rich!
            - become a monk, find another meaning in life…and passively hope that some woman will find you and decides to have sex with you without any special demands for it…

            or am I wrong?

          • sllab xussulpg

            You’re so out of the loop it’s mind-boggling. You’re trotting out this tired and hopelessly dated 1970s conception of porn from the bra burning era. Ask anyone who actually works in porn today who makes the most money and they’ll all tell you it’s women. Women rule the roost in pornography today. The male actors are basically props. Male actors, even straight ones, often do gay porn because that’s where the money is for male actors.

            Women act, write and direct in porn. They run production houses. You are literally about 40 years behind the times.

          • Sis

            Women watch porn too… Aaaaaaand… We dont buy maskara or makeup. (Advertisments that sell with sexualising women are made for women. And vise versa)

          • ThinkPink414

            From a female here… the porn industry is doing so well for many reasons but yours is at the bottom. Primarily its a booming industry because when it comes to sex – the human race are animals. Its the animalistic instinct that powers the drive for sex in us. Think about it simply and frankly… sex is the most important part of almost every living species. People aren’t interested in sex because of bias or misogynistic views – its in our nature. Porn is an industry that caters to this. Does the industry feed misogynist? Yep. But are misogynist the only group? Not even close.

            Not that I disagree with you on everything just that. I’m appreciative of all that stand against the ridiculousness of gender bias, so thanks for that. :)

          • bobowitz

            bah again! “it thrives on men that love to dominate, humiliate & hurt women” some people are kinky. I am sure there is porn for women who like to dominate men too! seriously, I dont think ‘porn’ is making any more men hate women, and i seriously dont think it is sexist at all. The only sexist thing about porn is that it panders mostly to a male demographic (shots focused from the male perspective, or on the female.) and thats just marketing. Prove that as many women or more watch porn as men, and the entire industry will shift.

          • deblehdebleh

            And they go forth as crusaders of male desire as if a little virility was the worst thing in the world, if not an abomination. Jesus Christ (pun not intended), can’t males at least have something without it being declared misogynist? Sooner or later some broad is going to throw a live penis out a car window…oh wait a minute.

          • michal kucera

            How are they pressured? Most of those women in porn seem to be consensual about what they are doing there…? If they do not like doing it, they do not have to…

          • michal kucera

            Well I do not like having anal sex with women (I do not even like watching it)….and I am man! So does this fact make you reestablish your position from hating all men toward hating all men minus 1?
            ———–
            and apart from this specific topic:

            The problem with feminism is such that it tends to generalize people according to their sex and judge an individual by the mere fact they have penis.

            Well I do not see it any different from judging people by the mere fact they have vagina.

            So yes, I think female feminism = male sexism! Both are one-sided, egocentric and separating one group of people from the other and none of these points of view make this world a better place, where equality between people can take place, where people could connect, understand, tolerate and help each other. The discussion ends up always in “It is me or you”, never both!

            Well biologically speaking – egocentric attitude toward live is natural, there is nothing wrong with that….yet I thought that with culture we actually can find a way to retain our egocentric nature and help others at the same time…Yet somehow I suspect this may be very difficult to explain to some people with American cultural background. The individualistic approach of US to people to life are well known rumor ….

            One more thought: How about to start focusing on what men and women have in common, instead of focusing all the time on the differences…Because I think when a person is in pain, the person does terrible things..so how about not to inflict more pain by judging the person for having pain or expressing it (natural thing to have or do) and help the person feel better instead….Behind any deed a human has done hides a motivation stemming either from painful or pleasant feelings.

            Aggressivity, desire for revenge, anger, desire to punish is a biological attempt to discharge an internal pain from the system….

            With this in mind I do perceive feminists who seem to inflict a punishment on men merely as an attempt to get rid of their internal pain. I do not believe that a happy person can actually intentionally try to hurt others…only unhappy people do that…

            Although I would like to help feminists with their pain to heal, I am not quite sure, whether it is in my power…Because the trend seems to be to blame men for everything and I fear that the only solution feminists might be satisfied with for good, would be either killing all men or closing them into a cage for breeding purposes…

            Col_Conran: What happened to you? Has somebody hurt you? A man? Bad relationship? Have you been raped? Have you been discriminated in job? What is your pain?

            I wish you happiness!

          • Col_Conran

            You have mistaken me for some one who cares about your sex life (I don’t)
            The only reason any of this was discussed was I’m a nurse & I was relaying what happens when a person tears the lining of their bowel when having anal sex (it doesn’t happen to everyone, but it can happen & it is very serious when it does).
            I was speaking from a medical point of view, I have zero idea what view you’re coming from & frankly don’t care.
            When talking to girls this has happened to, they have said their boyfriend keeps wanting to try anal because he watches porn & yes it happens to men as well.
            And women do this in porn because they are paid a lot more to do this kind of sex than normal sex. That’s their problem not mine.
            Now I don’t know what you’re raving on about, I’m happily married with 3 children, husband is normal, he doesn’t need to go around rubbishing feminism as he has benefitted from it by not having to be the only salary earner in our family. Before feminism women weren’t allowed to work once married.
            From what I gather you have a major issue with feminism (sorry to hear this) & that’s your problem not mine, so you can stop with your analysis of me as I believe you need it way more. Try to be happy with what you have, it’s not hard & if you’re not happy in life, it’s not feminisms fault, it’s yours !!
            Oh & I wish you nothing but happiness always & forever Amen :-)

          • guest

            Everything is misogyny. Misogyny is as played as the racist card. I laugh when a man hater (feminist) tries laying it down. Not just me, most men now literally do not have one concern for a female’s ell being. Thank your wonderful religion of man hate and perpetual victim hood for that.

          • Theo Devine

            Well that comment actually is misogyny.first it’s in an aggressive construct and second you have generalised men in your comment #Most me do not have one concern for a females ell being.

          • Fuck off

            Misogyny?? Shut the fuck up with your buzzwords, faggot reject. “Aggressive construct”? Maybe go back and study more Women’s Lit 101 and then kill yourself, hash tags belong on twitter, “Theo Divine” (fucking fag name if I ever heard one)

          • subbie

            He shouldn’t. Women’s studies literature is filled with lies and urban legends.

          • Marcus

            Seriously. Nobody is going to take your shit seriously if you’re just going to be offensive. Fuck off, “Fuck off.”

          • spoka

            Where an earth did you get that statistic? 3-4 times more commonly seen?And feminists aren’t a group that you can define as aggressive. There are many contradictory definitions of feminism and many different types of people who identify as feminist. Don’t tell someone to re-examine their views when you appear to have given your own very little thought.

          • Prakash Cherian

            You and your definitions. You believe that feminism is about equality. If that is the case, then, there are no feminists today. There is a lot of misandrists. You are just playing with semantics

          • Daisy

            I’m sorry, people DON’T accept misogyny? You are equally misinformed, my good sir.

          • andrea

            “misandry is far more commonly “seen” than misogyny( 3-4 times more)”

            [citation needed, otherwise that's just pulled from thin air]

          • kyle

            I agree. I think that mysogony may have a worse effect on individual women. Misandy does not have as bad of an impact on individual men, and we are expected to sort of shrug it off. But that does not mean that either are ok. It hurts my feeling to see the man hating that I see.

        • StillLearning

          I think men’s response to all of this is knee jerk. I see a great deal of support for women, but none for men. I also see a lot of misinformation being thrown around too. I don’t know any men that hate women, but I do know some that hate how they’re being treated by these women’s special interest groups and legislation.

        • OfficialPro

          What’s even more illogical is the women in feminism that claim that “Misandry is not a thing” because “Men can’t be oppressed”. This is derived from the bizarro-world concept “Critical Race Theory” which says that white people can’t be oppressed because they’re “the majority”. (This ignores little things like, the whites in South Africa were the MINORITY but they also were IN POWER, thus annulling the assumption by the Critical Race Theorists that Majority = Power, always. Blacks were the Majority, and they were most certainly without power AND oppressed!)

          It’s all derived at its core from Marxist/Communist dialetic, which makes sense to stupid naive college kids, and no sense whatsoever to thinking people.

        • brendan

          feminists regularly call for things like male genocide, and regularly say things like “men can stop rape” which implies that all men are rapists. There is no MRA who says things like that. Maybe you should pull your head out of your ass

      • jess

        Yeah, check the internet for valid data current social climates.

      • Jt

        I disagree entirely. I’ve never seen anyone openly “woman-hating” unless they were immediately jumped on and downvoted into oblivion from the majority of the community.

        • Elly

          Though I dont doubt the validity of this statistic, it exists because you no doubt live in a place where women are in a position to speak for themselves. Nobel Prize winning economist wrote the “more than 100 million woman are missing”. “China has 107 males for every 100 females in it’s overall population (and an even greater disproportions among newborns), India has 108 and Pakistan has 111. This has nothing to do with biology and indeed the state of Kerala in southwest of India , which has championed female education and equality, has the same excess of females that exist in the United States” (Half the sky-I book I recommend reading in order to fully understand this issue).

          Why cant we understand that this issue is bigger than words. I have rarely ever felt oppressed in my life because of my gender, HOWEVER I WILL FIGHT FOR WOMEN WHO ARE. There is no doubt in my mind that millions of women worldwide are oppressed simply because of their gender. The statistics above demonstrate the women who died because of this bias. Are there men who are oppressed as well? OF COURSE. But the real issue we are spending more time defining feminism than actually fighting against and blatant gender inequality.

          • anand

            Im from Kerala. :D The Indian national congress is breeding sexism in india promoting women just like obama in the us. For them women are just Vote banks

      • Daniel

        women verbalize 3 to 4 time more misandry than men do misogyny. Many people claim this woman hating rampage, even though if you examine it, you see the example are all out of context, the context shows, more often than not, female aggression.

        Anyone read Michael Nugents ridiculous article about “nasty push backs” to feminists? Perfect example.

        • sdrake

          Very true.

      • Col_Conran

        Amen to that…checked out PORN lately..woman hating or what !!…men are encourage to damage a woman physically to get turned on. I’m beginning to think men what women to be their gay pretend partner. But this is a whole other topic & don’t get me started about the “if she didn’t want to do it she wouldn’t” “if she wanted to do it, she wouldn’t need to get paid to do it, she’d do it for free”

        • adam

          You’re hurting your cause with your poor arguments. You just seem biased, which is clearly by design. What hurts your cause is that you come off as uneducated and/or unintelligent.

          • Col_Conran

            Rubbish Adam, are you trying to tell me that how women are being viewed & treated in misogynistic porn is NORMAL !! answer me this would you be happy if it was your daughter or any other female relative ?? You see I have a simple view in life, I what all humans to be treated fairly & with respect.

            There is nothing respectful in misogynistic porn, as I’ve said in other posts I’m a nurse & been there to help doctors repair girls who have been injured by their boyfriends who have pressured them into doing what they don’t feel comfortable doing.

            So!! don’t tell me I’m uneducated..grow up !!

      • guest

        Thank feminism. The religion of man hate and perpetual victim hood planted the hate seed 50 years ago. If a womyn was on fire I would waste my piss to put it out.

      • sdrake

        It’s not that men hate women. What they hate is how feminism has taken away many of men’s rights.

      • bloomingdedalus

        And, yet, women still are victims of suicide far less than men, suggesting that they are not the primary group that needs attention when it comes to the subject of social ostracism and bullying…

        https://vimeo.com/86299537

      • jarris ward

        i always assume that those women haters are towards women that have cheated on men or literally live up to their stereotypes. “good women” however are ones with good personalities don’t backstab every chance they get and you know are just generally nice skilled and NOT what the stereotypes make them seem as.

    • http://atrocityarts.com/ h

      UMMMM, since when does NOW work tirelessly to grant full custody of children to women? I would really love a source on THAT one. ;)

      • William Jenkins

        I guess I over-simplified their position, but the page at http://www.nowfoundation.org/issues/family/pad.html explains how they think “batterers, child abusers and pedophiles” make up fathers’ rights groups. Is it unthinkable that a father might just want to spend some time with his children? If you don’t think whoever wrote that page is prejudiced against men, I really don’t know what to say to you.

    • http://atrocityarts.com/ h

      And, since the power context already grants men more rights, the discussion about equal rights has to come to terms with the inequality that already exists before just saying “hey! we are all equal now. right?” Feminist conversation is not now dominated by rabid man haters. And, generally, never has been. So, please, check your own post for a little more nuance, perhaps?

      • William Jenkins

        Sorry, I don’t think feminism is dominated by rabid man-haters, just that extremists often seem to go unchallenged, except where it comes to trans* rights, and I applaud all the feminists who speak out against transphobia, they are really doing the right thing. Also, yes, we men do have more rights and/or privileges in many areas, especially areas that go along with traditional male gender roles. I wish that MRA’s would acknowledge that women aren’t living in some sort of utopia. Women have problems too, big problems, such as being more likely to be sexually assaulted. I wish that MRA’s would be more supportive of women’s rights in general, because if we men want equal rights, I feel like it’s only fair that we should care about women’s rights. Instead, MRA’s often seem to trivialize sexual violence against women and dismiss the idea of rape culture. This just seems inexcusable to me. A true human rights movement must support the rights of all humans.

        • guest

          “Sorry, I don’t think feminism is dominated by rabid man-haters”
          I don’t think the nazi party was dominated by Jew hating assholes either.
          The less extreme nazis supported and provided cover for the radicals. Therefore, there were no ‘good’ nazis, as there are no ‘good’ feminists. They are all equally evil.
          Which is why I don’t discriminate. Once a womyn identifies as a nazi, expect to be treated as such.

        • sllab xussulpg
      • keine rhobar

        “And, since the power context already grants men more rights,”
        Not true at all

    • Ryokhael

      I live in Utah, a state where there are many inequalities on both sides. Focusing on an arena where men are treated with particular inequality would be child custody, which you broached briefly, William. We have some of the most, if not the most, unbalanced adoption laws here. A mother can put her child up for adoption just 12 days after ‘notifying’ the father of the child. There doesn’t seem to be any definition for what qualifies as adequate notification. A 1 inch square ad in the paper would be considered sufficient. The mother doesn’t even have to be from Utah to do this. She could take a two week trip to Utah, and once the child’s adopted the father has almost no recourse for reclaiming his child. There are loving, capable fathers losing their children because of the mother’s spite. I find the whole thing sickening.

    • jen

      You would dislike alot of men too if you were raped, or abused daily now wouldnt you? Wait your a man so i wouldnt expect you to understand that…you would if your wife or daughter was thoug.h

  • http://twitter.com/brando_mcgregor Brando McGreggo

    Reading the comments, and seeing some of the anti-feminist stuff on Reddit, it seems to me there are only a few kinds of anti-feminists.

    1. Misogynists.
    2. Reverse sexists. Like reverse racists. They want to be the ones who are oppressed, and want to make the oppressed the oppressor. They enjoy being the victim but hate when others do it.

    3. People who do not understand the concept, or the invisible nature of male privilege and who do not understand that privilege also comes with disadvantages and expectations which are negative. IE. Men are expected to be strong and vocal. Women are not. Therefore if you are a quiet man, you are experiencing a disadvantage of male privilege and not experiencing a disadvantage of female privilege.

    4. Everything sucks for everyone so why try to change anything? Leave things as they are.

    5. People who love Ann Coulter, Sarah Palin, their working mom, their girlfriend with a steady job, their girlfriend who is sexually aggressive, anti-rape laws for their daughters, sisters and mothers, but have no sense of history and don’t realize that none of these things would exist without feminism.

    If it wasn’t for feminism there would be no outspoken conservative women. As a conservative woman would be one who stays in the kitchen and does not voice her opinion. Their single mom might have to stay with an abusive husband, or give her kids up for adoption if it wasn’t for her ability to work and own property, something granted by feminism. You would not have the option to have a self sufficient girlfriend. You’d have to pay for everything. That’s feminism. Your daughters, sisters, mother, now live in a society where if they are raped, they can feel more comfortable telling you, knowing you will understand and not blame them or disown them. You will also be less likely to see them as being tainted, dirty, used, or disgusting thanks to feminism and changing perceptions of women.

    I really hope this anti-feminist stuff is just a minority of internet losers who listen religiously to Rush Limbaugh, or some young 19 year olds who hate their single mom cause shes such a beeyotch and they are doing this anti-feminism stuff as a form of rebellion. Hopefully the 19 year olds grow out of it. I don’t think there’s any hope for the Rush fans who have been crying Femanazi for 30 years now.

    Oh and I’m not a woman. I’m a dude. My life isn’t perfect, I have my struggles and problems. But I’m not an idiot. I like feminism and don’t feel threatened by it at all. I’m thankful for it. I’m putting my daughter in Karate and exposing her to feminism so that she doesn’t get herself into some horrible abusive relationship. She’s going to kick ass. Maybe when you have a little girl you’ll change your tune about feminism too.

    • Brandon Mezei

      I believe in equality. Reddit feminism is not equality.

    • Dominic Blais

      most feminists just hate being treated like men there is way more help and benifits for women now men are the ones being held down and feminism’s view on nice guys tells men if they want sex they must rape because being nice is not working

      • QueQuoi

        I am choosing to ignore the outrageous and disgusting hyperbole that feminism forces men to rape and instead try to really dig into what you might just be too upset to properly articulate…

        It sounds like you might be saying that the only reason to be nice to a woman is to get her to go to bed with you? If that is the case, then no, that’s not being nice. Expecting payment in return for being kind is selfish and manipulative behavior.

        If that is not what you mean, and you are instead expressing frustration that you have been very kind to women to whom you have an attraction, and your attraction is not reciprocated, then I empathize with you. I’ve been there myself, as have most other people on the planet. I would suggest that if you are truly unselfish, kind person, keep on keeping on. You will undoubtedly meet someone wonderful who appreciates you for who you are.

        If my empathy is misplaced and you really just feel that any women you are attracted to owes you sex, then you are not a good person, and that’s the roadblock to your love life.

        • Dominic Blais

          no yet again another moron the point is if women DO NOT WANT TO BE SEX OBJECTS MEN WHO TREAT THEM LIKE PEOPLE SHOULD GET SEX

          • StudlyDoRight

            This might be the most ironic thing I’ve ever read.

            Also, men who treat women like people do get sex. Like, a LOT.
            I’m betting if you’re not having sex, then either:

            a) you don’t actually treat women “like people” unless you want to get in their pants (which is completely transparent to anyone with half a brain, and I imagine one hell of a turn-off for women)

            or

            b) you have other serious personal failings. This doesn’t include “not being a gym-toned Greek god” – there’s lots of people out there attracted to lots of body types, including non-traditionally-”hot” ones. I am a terrifying, skeletal bastard and I’ve had no problems finding people who look beyond that. No, we’re talking “being a spoiled man-child,” “unemployed lowlife” or similar sort of thing.

          • MuffinButton

            So… any man who’s single and/ or unsuccessful with women is automatically an awful person?

          • Pam

            Firstly, use your inside voice, please.
            Secondly, you clearly do see women as sex objects. You seem to think we operate like some sort of machine: ‘nice’ comment in, sex out. Your disdain for women is people emanates like a blinding neon light from your comments. As long as you see women as just tits and vagina whose sole purpose is to let you put your dick inside them, women will rightly avoid you.

          • Vitaly Klitschko

            Of course you’re a machine and are designed to have babies. And you have this inflated self worth because of feminism. Meanwhile men are men and are designed to put their dick in. And there’s no worse fate for a man than to be a woman’s slave. Those little lap dogs you see fawning over some worthless slag’s petticoat. It’s called being emasculated, look it up.

          • Kim

            ANNNNNNNDDDDDDDDD…’Misogynist Award of The Year’ goes to…

          • QueQuoi

            Yep.
            It is always so striking to me that unhappy straight cis-men always blame women and unhappy women of any type tend to blame themselves.

            Pew, isn’t the stench of patriarchy disgusting?

          • Kate

            Wow. You truly assume that a man simply has an undeniable right to “get sex” from a women if he is “nice” (so by allegedly not treating her as a sex object, he can see and use her as one)? And that if a “nice man” doesn’t get sex when he wants it, he may simply rape a woman, and feminism is purely to blame for his disgusting, sick behavior? You are the definition of an individual who perpetuates rape culture and a complete misunderstanding of feminism, so please, think about what you are saying before you word-vomit all over the comments section. I don’t mean to be rude and everyone has a right to their own opinion, yes, but… I think it’s time you sat back and took a long, hard look at your attitude towards women, Mr. Blais.

          • QueQuoi

            I cannot imagine what it must be like for people like him to be so filled with self-entitlement and hatred of half the planet’s population at the same time.

          • Gernsback

            but do they?

          • Rose

            men see women as sex objects. That will never stop, and don’t act like women don’t do it too. They do. Male strippers, for instance. Go to a anime/comic convention. You’ll be surprised how many boys go dressed all awesome and then get groped in the groin or touched, and no, they don’t like it.

          • Nick

            I’m sorry, kiddo, but nobody owes you sex. Not even if you’re nice to them.

    • joel

      Are you familiar with the concept of projected psychology? In short NO there are all kinds of anti-feminists and while some are bad most are good people who have problems with feminism for good reasons.
      In short your demanding a double standard judge feminism on it’s ideals but anti-feminism by it’s worse advocates.
      I’m antifeminist because I recognize that
      -Misandry is evil and hurts everyone
      -Men are good and as individuals have become less powerful/have less rights then women.
      -All our institutions discriminate against men not women
      -Feminism is deeply flawed in it’s worldview, misandrist in it’s application, and now part of an unjust status quo.

      • Col_Conran

        oh please Joel, go live in a country that has no feminism & see how long your head stays on your shoulders & I mean that literally. The only thing that holds a country back is male dominance or Religion, but never ever feminism, go do some research.

        • Don’t miss the point

          No one’s saying that there shouldn’t have BEEN feminism when it was a good thing, they’re saying that feminism is giving women more benefits and hurting men in the process NOW.

    • Gene Novak

      Privilege – A special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to one person or group of people.

      Privilege implies having it better in a circumstance. It’s subjective depending on where you stand relative to the position. If you’re young and attractive and female you have tons of privileges that come out in various situations. If you’re fat and old you don’t have the privileges. If it works against you then you have a disadvantage not backfired privilege. Men can not have a privilege when it works against them. This is part of the reason a lot of men hate feminism. It’s based on the idea of men always being oppressors and women being the victims. No matter how you sugar coat it it always comes back to this.

      • kofybean

        It always comes back to that. Men bad woman good. There is no way around that.

    • Dominic Blais

      the only thing that quite men suffer from is lack of women’s interest, and many of them are the one who want a wife and mother for their children feminism has demonized the role of mother and children are the one who pay the ultimate price for this. before feminism women chose men more on character not personality. will he be here to raise my kids and take care of me not does he make my pussy wet when we meet

    • kofybean

      So everyone who doesn’t agree with your philosophical genre is a bad person? Typical. No holes in that argument.

    • Col_Conran

      Very well said, it’s often the case that when a man becomes a father to a daughter that he truly realizes what women have to put up with in life. Men know how other men think about women & what they want to do to them & it often isn’t pleasant or in your daughters best interest either. You’re doing the right thing teaching her how to protect herself & stand up for her rights.

  • ally mccoist

    long live charlie sheen yay! he knnows how to handle women, pump em then dump em woohoo

  • Mikey

    “All sex, even consensual sex between a married couple, is an act of violence perpetrated against a woman.”Catherine MacKinnon

    “In a patriarchal society all heterosexual intercourse is rape because women, as a group, are not strong enough to give meaningful consent.” Catherine MacKinnon in Professing Feminism: Cautionary

    “Who cares how men feel or what they do or whether they suffer? They have had over 2000 years to dominate and made a complete hash of it. Now it is our turn. My only comment to men is, if you don’t like it, bad luck – and if you get in my way I’ll run you down.” — Letter to the Editor: “Women’s Turn to Dominate” — Signed: Liberated Women, Boronia — Herald-Sun, Melbourne, Australia – 9 February 1996

    There is lots of quotes like these any comments on them? or the fact a friend of mine of convinced of rape by a woman’s word alone all thou he had witnesses and bank statements to prove he was in a different state. he got 3 years in jail and is now a sex offender, he lost his wife and kids.

    • JK

      See, you clearly didn’t read the part where Sam mentioned cherry picking bad quotes. I can put out ridiculously sexist Bible quotes, but that doesn’t somehow prove all men have concubines which they hand out in a man’s place to be raped, then when the woman comes home and falls dead, they slice her up and distribute pieces of her body throughout the city as some lesson about morality. I can tell you those quotes are wrong and the people who wrote them are wrong, but it’s unfair to judge an entire movement which has brought on so much change by a few unfair things.

      As far as the legal system, it’s not always great. I’m surprised that happened to your friend considering how many states are extremely backlogged on their rape kits, which are supposed to be free but people have to pay for if they have any choice of getting some degree of justice.

      • Billy Plante

        Cherry picking quotes, and finding quotes the most influential feminists in history have said are two different things. That’s like saying quotes from Einstein don’t reflect what scientists think, or quotes from Regan don’t represent what conservatives think.

        • G.V.

          Actually, that only represents what Einstein and Regan think. Some might approve of it or accept it and thus internalize it as the same thing, but overall, it’s their quote, it’s what they thought. It is not necessarily representative of the community.

    • Jaja88

      And do those quotes represent every single feminist’s views?
      No.
      Let’s try not to jump to conclusions here.

      • Dominic Blais

        ya but they all hate men until they accept men need sex

        • WillowFish

          No one needs sex. Sex is nice but it’s not necessary for anyone, man or woman. Arguing that “men need sex” is actually sexist against men.

          • urbanrocker

            Weellll, sex is an inherent biological need ingrained in us lest we forget to keep the species going however I supposed you’re right, it’s not exactly a need akin to air or water.

          • WillowFish

            Only it’s not. It’s an inherent biological desire, it’s not an inherent biological need. Believe me, the species is safe. No one is going to forget that sex is awesome and desirable. But to suggest that it is a requirement for anyone is just…off. It was precisely the fact that it’s not a need akin to air or water that I was attempting to highlight. Sex is awesome and all but you’re not going to die without it. Now, if you were a female ferret, you could argue that it’s a need because she actually will die without it but humans don’t have that problem. lol

          • sdrake

            Women need sex more than men. Which gender has a body part strictly dedicated to sexual pleasure (the clitoris)?. Do men have such a part purely for sexual pleasure? Which gender can have multiple orgasms? Which gender buys the overwhelming majority of sex toys, which are anatomically designed for women?

      • Fred

        You have got to provide some some evidence that not all feminist are like this. There’s no way I’m going to believe you.

        • TheManWithNoPlan

          I’m a feminist, and I’m not like that.

          • WillowFish

            ^Ditto. I’m a feminist and I think Catherine MacKinnon is 100% wrong about that.

            I noticed too that out of 3 quotes to show how bad feminists are, she made up 2 of them. That is absolutely cherry picking.

      • Sameer Desai

        Has any single feminist criticized those quotes? If not they might as well be.

        • WillowFish

          Plenty of us have. Maybe if you took your fingers out of your ears you would hear it.

    • urbanrocker

      OH my god, can people research anything these days? Catharine MacKinnon NEVER actually said that shit.

  • winterborne

    so feminists that force schools to close wrestling teams and other sports programs that traditionally are boys only because girls don’t like those sports. when they picket a speech they don’t like pull fire alarms and scream in the halls to disrupt a speech they consider wrong. When the EU boy scout program is forced to admit girls but the EU girls scouts program can refuse boys. Women only train cars in India, women divorcing men for the sole purpose of taking a lifetime of alimony,maintenance taking everything the man WORKED his whole life to create. Women lying about birth control and then choosing to keep the baby even tho the man does not want children (paternity fraud) and he is forced by the state to pay for a child he didn’t consent too. i could go on and on these barely tip the bucket on the “fairness and concern feminists have for men” (not all feminists are like that, biggest Bullshyte lie I’ve ever heard)

    • sdrake

      Finally! Someone who has actually done his homework and knows what he’s talking about! Good post!

    • tabaqui

      Wow. Women-only train cars in India are because women get harassed and groped so much in mixed-gender cars, the GOVT. made the women-only cars. All these other things you site – women ‘lying’ about bc, etc.? They are not the norm, the statics of women doing this is *very* small, and it still DOES NOT MEAN that women are better off or ‘more equal’ or that all feminists ‘hate men’.

    • jen

      You are an idiot! All those things youve listed about women are what a DESPERATE woman does not a feminist

  • BrainName

    “Being a feminist doesn’t mean you believe “all men are rapists.” This
    quote comes from a book by Marilyn French and it seems to be recited
    more by anti-feminists (as a means of debunking feminism) than feminists
    themselves. It’s simply a ridiculous statement that’s been given a
    ridiculous amount of airtime.”

    Well that being said, if feminists REALLY don’t support people like Marilyn French and the things she says. Just come out with it. ” Don’t say We’re not all Like that!” Say:” Yeah, we don’t like the stain Marilyn French put on our movement whens he said that, I am cool with guys, just not the one’s that cause trouble.”

    It’ll clean up the movmeent if you make the movement seem opposed to things like what Marilyn French said, which most ‘anti-feminists’ or critics oppose by default. not you too have common ground and you have cleaned up feminism’s image a little. and yes, if you have feminists who are misandrist. make it intolerable for the misandrist to stay, drive em out, call them out. if feminists does not equal misandry. make that case tot he feminists, not the critics. once you loose all the misandrist then the majority of the critics have nothing on feminism at that point.

    • Nick

      Weren’t you paying attention? This article IS explicitly rejecting the extremists in favor of a more moderate view. I’m not sure what more you want.

    • guest

      Save your lies and propaganda for the coven, man hater. We might have been born at night, but it wasn’t last night.

  • politicalcynic

    What do feminists fight FOR? Well, let’s take a look:

    When sexual orientation was removed from the UN statement on arbitrary execution, feminist organizations said…nothing.
    When feminists are challenged on domestic violence, including TWO studies, one by the US Council of Violence against WOMEN, that said over 800K men are victims of domestic violence in the US alone annually, feminists said…”it’s a myth”.
    When a recent investigation into rape crisis centers was conducted in Briain and the US, they found most of them run on “feminist” principles…and that they were consistently “afraid male victims would be violent.”
    NO feminist organization has come out in support of requiring US Women to register for selective service-although they supported women in being in combat roles.
    When the feminist UN Speical Envoy was informed that 22 percent of MEN in the Congo have been victims of sexual abuse and rape, and that there were NO services for them (because all services were fore women) she said “Well, it happens more to woomen….”-which was both not completely true-and demonstrated that feminists do NOT care about men. At all.
    Feminists believe men are all potential rapists and abusers-if they did not, they would not believe that men have to be “taught not to rape”. The only reason to “teach men not to rape” is if you BELIEVE all men are rapists.
    Feiminsts do not support spending more money on homelss MALES-although MEN make up 75-80 percent of ALL homeless.
    When a US college considered trying to recruit more male students because the student body was nearly 2/3 FEMALE, feminists went to the DOJ and complained that this was sexism against women.

    Would you liek any more? Or do you want to continue making lame excuses for everything from #killallmen hash tags to the complete absence of ANY domestic violence or rape crisis services for men in MY community?

    Feminists need to clean up their OWN house if they expect me to believe they aren’t a hate group. Oh-and by the way-I’m actually a gay man-who grew up on “all gay men are child molesters”-so I am quite good at recognizing a hate group when I see one from personal experience. And yes-I am also BOTH a survivor of DV and rape…so I speak from my own experiences…

    • mike

      Wow! Did you NOT just read the article above? Those women are NOT feminists even though they might say they are. They are wrong and horrible excuses for feminists.

      • Archy

        “Those women are NOT feminists even though they might say they are. ”
        No, they are feminists, they’re just not the kind you like. Why do you get to decide who is feminist and who isn’t? Their actions may be bad but they still refer to themselves as feminists.

        • Kim

          By definition…they actually aren’t. Or are you going to try and manipulate the definition of the term to suit your ‘intellectual’ ends [as evidenced by you not recognizing you OWN hypocrisy] while pulling the ‘pot and kettle’ routine as well?
          ————————————
          Fem·i·nism [fem-uh-niz-uhm]

          the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.
          ————————————

          Read the definition however many times it takes until it (FINALLY) sinks in.

          “No, they are feminists, they’re just not the kind you like. Why do you get to decide who is feminist and who isn’t?”

          And you DO get to decide?

          [Do I even need to point out what constitutes the 'pot, kettle...black' in your sentence(s)?]

          “Their actions may be bad but they still refer to themselves as feminists.”

          THOSE kinds of ‘feminists’ ARE bad, they DO refer to themselves as ‘feminists’ but they are NOT actual Feminists.
          THOSE are MISANDRISTS.

          Go back and read the article however many times as needed until you ‘get it’. [Which for you it wouldn't be surprising if the number ranks in the hundreds...]

          • Archy

            No true scotsmen fallacy.
            Are feminists who advocate for male rights as well also feminists, or only those focusing on female rights alone?

          • Ummm

            Not entirely sure what you’re asking, but if you meant if a feminist could also advocate for men’s rights and still be a feminist, then the answer is yes. Many feminists are interested in a number of different issues/causes/etc.

          • Archy

            Is it possible to be both feminist and MRA then? Some MRA’s I know of want full equality for women and men (and basically use the term as egalitarianism, just as some feminists I know use feminism as egalitarianism).

          • Cristifer Ross

            Scotsman says:if feminists advocate men ,rights of men then there would not be a double standard..love feminists to not be man haters,some are dear…

          • Mark Neil

            The small handful I know of that do support men’s issues, are attacked routinely by feminists for their views on men. iFeminism.com

          • Daniel

            feminism is not a men’s rights movement, or an egalitarian. Feminists technically could support men’s rights, but it would be more accurate for them to be called egalitarian.

          • Mark Neil

            So, when Betty Friedan said “the movement was in danger of being taken over by female supremacists/female chauvinists and calls Steinem out as one of the people leading the charge” … which one are you going to say isn’t the real feminists? And who are you to make that call. Precisely what credentials do you have to overrule both these women’s claims that they are feminists. Even Friedan doesn’t make such a claim to authority that she can denounce Steinem from the movement. What, precisely, have you done, besides read a dictionary entry, that gives you the right to dictate who is, and who isn’t a feminists? Nothing about your dictionary definition precludes female supremacy, given a particular interpretation… an interpretation that is dominant in our society. The very interpretation that see’s woman making up 60% of post secondary graduates, dominating 12 of the top 15 growth industries and thinking… that’s not enough, women don’t have “equality” in the STEM fields, and they don’t dominate those last 3 growth fields… so lets make policy to take it. Equality has been defined by these people as, women having equal to men in everything, but not necessarily men having equal to women in anything. IE, women must be 50%+ in everything, meaning men are allowed only 50%, at best, and less if it happens. This likewise fits your definition, if interpreted in such a way. So who, precisely, are you to dictate who is and who isn’t a feminist? And what authority do you have to overrule those who are working in the name of feminism, and grinding men under their heals as they do so?

          • PsychDave

            “Fem·i·nism [fem-uh-niz-uhm]

            the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.”
            TRUE
            BUT the problem that some were referring to, that is ignored in your specific post, is that when it comes to male problems most feminist (these TRUE feminist) are silent. The question is why is that so? Helping women get equal right is great but where is the help for men?
            Men feel ignored by this movement
            If this indeed a movement that embodies equality (not saying that in its purest form it doesn’t)
            Why is there a lack of effort in that areas where rights or options for men are lacking in comparison to women? ex. Shelters, punishment for crimes, the support/acceptability of men in traditionally women roles etc.

            Where are those adds that empower men? in many commercials fathers are degraded to the family’s medieval jester and sperm donor while mom is super hero. What if roles were somewhat reversed? most likely backlash from the feminist movement

            Why is 95% (made up #) of the feminist efforts spent on ONLY women’s rights? not saying that it has to or “should” be equal but… a little more than 5% would be nice
            Doesn’t this seem a little sexist or better yet like Sex Discrimination?

            Sex Discrimination: involves the “differential treatment” of people based on their biological sex

            It kind of sounds like “differential treatment”. Many men are just simply asking an supposedly equal movement “Can a man get some love?”

          • the merry willy wonka person

            are you retarded, WE ARE STILL BEING TREATED LIKE SHIT. fuck men’s needs they don’t have an equality problem. WE HAVE AN EQUALITY PROBLEM the media has given the illusion we have equality to try to stop the rampage but good god man its everywhere. LOOK THROUGH YOUR OWN EYES. why are you so intimidated by equality? Your weak ass needs to stop being a pathetic “bully” and start seeing you are no better than anyone else, if not lower due to your unintelligent perspective. As long as people like you exist this will go on, perhaps there should be a sexist man hollocaust. Let’s just kill all you off and stop the media from manipulating the truth and show things as they are . pff men’s problems YEAH RIGHT for as long as humans have lived women have had if not ALL THE PROBLEMS. nad we get blamed for you. how dare you. you disgrace. You are worthless completely mindless, piece of shit. and you will die.

          • Robert Theisen

            I certainly hope this was an attempt at sarcasm. Please tell me this was sarcasm. Please!?

            If you are sincere (which I hope you are not) then please help me to open my eyes and see the way women “ARE STILL BEING TREATED LIKE SHIT”?

            Women are sexualized in the media?
            I thought feminism advocated that as “slut pride”

            Women can’t openly sell sex?
            Men can’t do that either.

            Women don’t earn as much in the workplace as men?
            Corrected for all factors … young college graduate women earn 8% more than their male peers

            Women cannot take their shirts off in public?
            In many cities they can. And in those cities where they cannot I suspect the men just don’t like seeing breasts so they choose to oppress women there. Move if you don’t like it. :)

            Women are forced to take custody of children and accept child support in most divorce cases?
            Oh wait. Which way do you lean on that one?

            Women are only alotted 98% of the domestic violence support/funding set aside by the government?
            You need to work harder to get that last 2% I guess.

            Women are forced to choose whether they will be stay at home mothers or have a career or try to do both?
            Thinking and deciding is hard. I will give you that.

            Women are forced to decide if they will carry a baby to term or have an abortion. If they choose to carry the baby to term they can choose to give the baby up for adoption or keep it. If they choose to keep it they can name a father randomly and have him pay for her “choice”.
            More of those hard decisions and think’in.

            Women can choose to study a fluffy course in college that stands no chance to provide a living wage for them in the future. And then after partying hard for 4,5,7, or 10 years choose to lower her expectations slightly and marry a slightly older slightly less attractive man and he will support her until she has stuck around long enough to get alimony from him and then divorce him and become a “cougar”. RAWR.
            Oh the humanity!!! You may have me converted by now.

          • papa

            maybe women or should I say you as a woman are treated in a way you think is unfair because you are constantly playing the victim and therefore you get treated like one. Its not about colour, creed, gender its about attitude and state of mind that allow people to treat you in a certain way.

          • Reba

            Nobel Prize winning economist wrote the “more than 100
            million woman are missing”. “China has 107 males for every 100 females
            in it’s overall population (and an even greater disproportions among
            newborns), India has 108 and Pakistan has 111. This has nothing to do
            with biology and indeed the state of Kerala in southwest of India ,
            which has championed female education and equality, has the same excess
            of females that exist in the United States” (HALF THE SKY-I book I
            recommend reading in order to fully understand this issue).
            Why
            cant we understand that this issue is bigger than words. I have rarely
            ever felt oppressed in my life because of my gender, maybe one day I
            will. Though I don’t currently feel oppressed by my society I WILL
            FIGHT FOR WOMEN WHO ARE. There is no doubt in my mind that millions of
            women worldwide are oppressed simply because of their gender. The
            statistics above demonstrate the women who died because of this bias.
            Are there men who are oppressed as well? OF COURSE. But the real issue
            we are spending more time defining feminism than actually fighting
            against sick and blatant gender discrimination.

          • Reba

            Nobel Prize winning economist wrote the “more than 100
            million woman are missing”. “China has 107 males for every 100 females
            in it’s overall population (and an even greater disproportions among
            newborns), India has 108 and Pakistan has 111. This has nothing to do
            with biology and indeed the state of Kerala in southwest of India ,
            which has championed female education and equality, has the same excess
            of females that exist in the United States” (HALF THE SKY-I book I
            recommend reading in order to fully understand this issue).
            Why
            cant we understand that this issue is bigger than words. I have rarely
            ever felt oppressed in my life because of my gender, maybe one day I
            will. Though I don’t currently feel oppressed by my society I WILL
            FIGHT FOR WOMEN WHO ARE. There is no doubt in my mind that millions of
            women worldwide are oppressed simply because of their gender. The
            statistics above demonstrate the women who died because of this bias.
            Are there men who are oppressed as well? OF COURSE, but the real issue
            we are spending more time defining feminism than actually fighting
            against sick and blatant gender discrimination.

          • PsychDave

            haha owned by Robert

          • Your Very Sad

            you are without a doubt a very sick MENTALLY DISTURBED WOMAN that should seek professional help by the way. oh wait a minute, your beyond HELP.

          • shadowman

            Where have you been the last 50 years? in an underground bunker on the moon with ear plugs in and a blindfold on?
            Of COURSE FEMINISTS hate men!!! They SAY it all the time. Some have been quoted as saying things like; “Women have an OBLIGATION to hate men.” and “It is an HONORABLE thing to hate men” and “Feminism was NEVER about equality, but about the destruction of all things male.”. Does any of THAT sound like an organization, group or individuals that LOVE men??
            No. What it sounds like is the F*$king NAZIS and their rhetoric about the Jewish people! And while I despise Rush Limbaugh, He did get one thing right when He coined the term; FEMINAZIS. Because THAT is EXACTLY what they are. Many feminists, just like the Nazis did the Jews, even advocate (in ALL seriousness) the EXTERMINATION of males. Again JUST like the Nazis did the Jews. JUST like them.
            I suppose that NEXT you’ll be telling us that the Nazis didn’t/don’t hate Jews.

          • The Truth

            Hey Einstein, are you for Real.

          • KallufraxMinor

            Thank you, for unironically being everything this article outlines in its “no true Scotsman” bullshit.

            Also, you call someone a worthless, mindless, piece of shit who deserves to die and a bully in the same breath, as it were, though I’m going to assume, based on your spelling, grammar, and all around linguistic failure, you lack the finer faculties to properly appreciate the irony of that.

          • http://wonkytechno.tumblr.com adey jarvis

            Well done, equality comes from abusing people and calling them a retard. I want to hear more of your YOU and US theories, they sound legit.

          • Sameer Desai

            As far as an ideology is concerned it must be judged by how it is in action. Dictionary definitions are meaningless if it’s followers’ action stand for something else.
            Semantically we might be able to argue that most christians are not christians or most muslims are not muslims but that means nothing. We identify ideologies by what we see.

          • Mark Elkins

            According to Merriam-Webster feminism is:
            1 : the theory of the political,economic, and social equality of thesexes 2 : organized activity on behalf of women’s rights and interests.
            Feminist apologist do more damage to the credibility of the feminist movement than the most radical.

          • Daniel

            well in principle the dictionary definition is fine, who would have a problem with a group looking out for their own. But it often claims to be egalitarian, which it is not. It also revolves around it’s simplistic understanding of patriarchy, which is deterministic and anti male.

            A movement is judged by what it does, not the dictionary. It takes time for dictionary definitions to change. But they will.

      • B_Rex

        so this means what? there are exactly zero Feminists? or perhaps just a few hiding in the shadows, quiet and ineffective?

        The vast majority if not all self identified “feminists” in power are incredibly anti-male as evidenced by much of politicalcynic’s post and when women do speak up they usually want to distance themselves from feminism as much as possible and often face protests and violence from those who DO call themselves feminists.
        No true scotsman

      • Daniel

        it is similar to people in ireland who say they are catholics, if you ask them their beliefs, they are not.

        On the same area, people say re clerical abuse, “you get rotten apples in all areas, a minority etc” but it was wide spread and institutional.

        The standard cop out that bypass the normal analytical parts of the brain would not be accepted in other areas of secular life. You only see this wishy washy, weak, sort of article in pro feminist circles.

        It make no effort to actually ask what the truth is. Just state certain people are wrong and why.. with platitudes and truisms.

    • Bianca Arlette

      You are doing exactly what the article describes. You are denouncing an entire group because of the actions of a minority. Sad.
      I am a feminist and I have done nothing of what you accuse me of having done. The fact is that there is no such thing as ONE feminist ideology. Feminism differs from country to country and even area to area.

      • B_Rex

        Oh those minorities of feminists like NOW, the largest feminist organization on the planet, or Hillary Clinton, Angela Merkel, Julia Gillard, and many other feminists in government, major feminist publications like Jezebel, Feministing, Cosmo… wait i think the word you were looking for is the majority.

        Honestly the name is tainted for a reason and that is that the Feminists you believe in are silent and powerless while those with a voice invariably use it to spread hate and lies.

        • Daniel

          I know, people say this stuff without even caring if it is true or false. The knee jerk “it’s a minority” rubbish! totally weak, wishy washy and typical. Oh ye, and utter rubbish, go to your tube and look at some feminist debates. All include anti male feeling and massive double standards.

        • Timothy David Cruise

          The NOW have fought a campaign for women to be included in the draft that was rejected by the Supreme Court.

      • Mark Neil

        When even Betty Friedan is denouncing modern feminism (She says the movement is in danger of being taken over by female supremacists/female chauvinists), you have a problem you can’t just keep trying to hand-wave away. You claim the actions being used to denounce feminism only come from a minority, but even if it is a minority, it is the vocal minority, with absolutely no condemnation for those actions, or for misrepresenting the “rest of you”. Even this article doesn’t condemn that minority, it simply tries to scapegoat them and then proceed to marginalize the negative impact they’ve had. That doesn’t show support for the men those “minorities” are demonizing, it shows a complete apathy.

        • Jon

          It’s ok. More and more men are just not getting married and they are giving up on women.

          Feminsits will finally get what they want: no man and real independence.

          Trust me. It’s not walk in the park, ladies… i mean feminist cunts.

          • Amy

            Did you even read the article?
            I mean, seriously?

            Read the last line again -
            ‘Do you keep whining about how feminists hate men and distracting
            yourself and others from serious issues of inequality?’
            You are the type of person that the author describes in the last sentence – you keep whining about how (you think) feminism hates men (when it doesn’t).

            Maybe for some feminists, ‘no man and real independence’ is their dream. Several feminists I know are married or in relationships with men, and continue to be independent.

            At least read the article properly and understand it before you criticise it.

          • Col_Conran

            “i mean feminist cunts”.

            Now that’s a comment from a irrational hater.

            So if women have no opinions, don’t complain ever, just be quite, give up on any dreams of achievement, I’m guessing men will want to marry them. Wow great life right there & I’m surprised women aren’t lining up.

            You know why most men swear, they have real trouble with comprehension & putting into words what they feel, so they swear instead, hoping the person their directing the swearing at will just shut up & go away. Too bad it never works ever, so read the article & try your hardest to comprehend & give us your thoughts. Because at present you are what the article is talking about.

          • guest

            I take exception with calling womyn Ladies. The term Lady decribes a woman who is worthy of deference and respect. No feminist is a Lady, quite the opposite in fact.
            I afford womyn nothing. I do not protect, defend, honor, etc. I have and will pound womyn into the earth, it doesn’t bother me. I will treat you equally as I would a genuine man.

          • Col_Conran

            Did you read the above article at all???, or are you just one of those loons let out for weekend release ??

            The above article was written by a man, not a woman, your attempt at bad spelling shows a very immature brain.

      • Fred

        What you are saying is “I am not like this, other feminist are”. Other feminist will say “not me, the other-other feminist are like this”. So basically, no feminist is going to admit to the facts.

        • politicalcynic

          The fundamental problem with the NAFALT argument is this: I would not accept “not all neo-nazis are like that” or “not all KKK members are like that” as making it acceptable to be part of one of those groups. The same applies to feminists trying to say “well, but gee, not all feminists are like that”.

          If you define yourself as a feminst, you are supporting a hate group-no matter what excuses you make-or this article makes. Period.

          • Nick

            Your examples are ludicrous. The central tenets of the KKK are what make them a hate group. The central tenet of feminism is that women should have an equitable role in society. See the difference?

          • edtastic

            Yes, the KKK needed a better publicist. The fact is if your movement spends the bulk of it’s time bashing a gender then we can say that movement is built on gender hate. It’s what an ideology believes and or does that matters not it’s slogan on a bumper sticker.

          • Daniel

            one of the central parts of feminism is the flaws in society are all, pretty much, down to patriarchy. This absurdly simplistic view of society is any male. It sees a oppressive male ruled society as the enemy. It starts with this answer and works backwards.

            I am anti feminist, but I do not hold feminism on the same level of racism, it lacks the clarity of the racism they expound. This makes feminism so insidious.

          • Sameer Desai

            Just because they say it is the central tenet doesn’t imply it is. Their actions speak otherwise.

          • Daniel

            exactly, people talk about feminism as if it is an ethnicity not an ideology. If you support a sexist movement you are a sexists, just like with The KKK you are a racist.

          • Amy

            This is simply not true.
            There IS at least one clear fact regarding for feminism – it strives for gender equality.

            It is FEMINISTS and ANTI-FEMINISTS who twist the meaning, and give the (false) impression that it is a sexist ‘hate group’.

            This is not an ‘excuse’, only an explanation.I am not a member of a hate group, and I am a feminist.
            The two DO NOT go hand in hand.

          • Col_Conran

            Rubbish,

            Now here is an test I gave to a friend of mine who was rubbishing feminism & everything being a feminist meant. Stating they have done only harm to the world.

            I told him to get a world map & get 2 colored pins -

            1. place one colored pin on the countries in the world where you would live, places you felt had good living standards, relative low poverty, good education,etc
            2. place the second colored pin on countries where you felt you wouldn’t want to live, maybe because of war, poverty, controlling culture,lack of education, etc

            When he finished I place two different colored pins
            1. on countries that have feminism
            2. on countries that don’t.

            End result, even he was surprised, every country he DIDN’T want to live in had “no feminism” & the countries he DID want to live in had “feminism”.

            Another main point was all the countries where he never wanted to even visit suffered from oppressive “male dominance”

            But hey, you can keep banging on about how bad feminism is, try looking at the big picture for a change.

          • Mark Neil

            You’re confusing correlation with causation. Have you ever considered the reason all those countries have feminism is because they have been made safe and comfortable enough that women could start complaining and making demands without fear of losing their protections and provisions? Perhaps you should do your pin test, and this time check for which places that have welfare states, and see if there is a correlation with feminism there too.

          • Col_Conran

            Rubbish, men stopped chaining women down . Do you expect women to actually thank men because they stopped being aseholes for 1000yrs to half the worlds population & stopped treating women as slaves. Women fought hard for 200 yrs to a) be given an education b) be allowed to own property in their own right & c) allowed to vote to get ride of controlling males. You think the blacks got a raw deal as slaves, women were treated worst than the family pet. No say or control over their lives, their own bodies. The rise in living standards in the developed world have come from educating women, she now has the means to lift the lives of her children as well. Look around the world wherever men dominate war & poverty remain, & it will stay that way until the women are free to live. E.g Afghanistan will never progress because the males are stupid.

          • Mark Neil

            You have a very skewed, geocentric and victim infused view of history. Just for an example, the vote for women was actually opposed, not by men, but by OTHER WOMEN who feared that getting the vote would include being subjected to the draft. When more women than not actually supported getting the vote, they got it. You see, your problem, and the problem of many feminists, is that you erase all women who aren’t feminists from existence… they never existed… and so their opinions and stances are never acknowledged and thus, attributed to men. Same thing happens with abortion… which is opposed mostly by women, and the men that support those women. But do feminists acknowledge that? No, they pretend those other women don’t exist, and claim it is men, and only men, that oppose what all women want… IE abortion.

            “You think the blacks got a raw deal as slaves, women were treated worst than the family pet”

            WOW…. just…. WOW! Can’t get more victim cultist than saying women had it worse than black peoples. That’s pretty racist, to marginalize what black slaves endured in order to prop yourself up as the greater victims. There really is no debating your kind of professional victim. Nothing I say will ever convince you of anything beyond some attempt to keep victimizing you. There is no point discussing with you…I’m done.

          • Col_Conran

            No!! You have a very skewed, geocentric and victim infused view of history or how men have been discriminated against…you sir are a total FOOL

            Give the proof it was women that opposed the vote for women, you see it is men that have written any history books & they are all swayed to the male view WAKE UP & I want proof that a woman wrote she opposed the vote, not what a husband told a woman to say, after all women at that time in life had to obey their husbands you IDIOT!!

            You sir live with your head in the sand & twist facts to cry MALE VICTIM you see your problem is you live by the twisted MRA logic, it’s just another misogynist male bonding group & it stands for (male lying rats). Other men have denounced the MRA group as twisting every fact they can to try & get sympathy. You are the one who can’t see what women went though or just refuse to see because it doesn’t suit your twisted male privilege.

            Explain away that 70% of the world poor are female (NOT MALE) you can’t!!

            And we agree on one thing!! nothing a MRA has to say will convince me of anything

          • Mark Neil

            “No!! You have a very skewed, geocentric and victim infused view of history or how men have been discriminated against…you sir are a total FOOL”

            Ah, the “I know you are, but what am I?” defense. genius.

            “Give the proof it was women that opposed the vote for women”

            For a feminist, you don’t know very much about the very events you rely so heavily on to justify your hatred of men.

            https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-suffragism

            “not what a husband told a woman to say”

            And there is your way out. Any proof I offer, you’ll dismiss as another woman oppressed by her husband.

            Most of the rest is simply projection. Your post is full of insults and baseless accusations, and your “facts” are ideological dogma, not reality.

            “Explain away that 70% of the world poor are female (NOT MALE) you can’t!!”

            Provide evidence that 70% of the worlds poor are women (and make sure your evidence includes all those homeless men, or are beyond poor).I’m willing to bet you can’t actually provide any real (IE, none feminists rhetoric) evidence that supports such a claim. In fact, I already know you can’t (http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=1797)

            “And we agree on one thing!! nothing a MRA has to say will convince me of anything”

            Yup. That’s how faith and dogma works. It’s how bigotry holds. This is why feminism is having such problems… because people like you are so entrenched, and hateful, and close minded… and not a single other feminist is willing to challenge your position, because it will force them to realize, that your position is exactly the same as theirs, you’ve only chosen to take it to heart more than they have.

            And anyone who ever does say something that forces you to question your beliefs will simply be branded an MRA, thus allowing you to dismiss those arguments out of hand.

          • Col_Conran

            You IDIOT…..”wikipedia” anyone can update wikipedia, it’s not factual FOOL
            Check out here for the facts on the world poor
            http://www.globalpovertyproject.com/infobank/women? Women make up half of the world’s population and yet represent a staggering 70% of the world’s poor. Get yourself educated !!

          • Mark Neil

            But wiki is a good place to start self research, as it provides multiple citations to other sources. For someone telling me to get educated, you are awfully resistant to educating yourself… and seem willfully ignorant of what the resources available to do so can offer.

            Your link doesn’t bring me to anything even closely resembling your claim.

            I’m tired of the belligerence, ignorance and arrogance. But thank you for demonstrating the problem with feminists.

          • Col_Conran

            No it isn’t, I can go on Wikipedia right now & change it or update it to what I want.
            Did you look at Gobal Poverty Project. The link was above. you wanted proof well how about you seek out the truth

            http://www.globalpovertyproject.com/infobank/women?

            AND isn’t it funny the facts on the site have proof of women’s poverty, children’s poverty…but guess what, there is no male privileged poverty..funny that !!

          • edtastic

            “Explain away that 70% of the world poor are female (NOT MALE) you can’t!!”

            For starters this Oxfam blog says:

            “Every expert (feminist economists, poverty researchers etc) I’ve consulted on this agrees the number is dodgy, and yet people just keep on using it, presumably because its message is one they want to promote.”

            http://www.oxfamblogs.org/fp2p/?p=1797

            Bad stats make have been distorting the gender conversation for decades so I suggest you double check your sources and read original studies whenever possible. That 70% stat is all over the place but it’s wrong.

            Men and women tend to share the same class because they form families and share resources. Poverty gap between men and women in the US is only 3 percentage points apart. Why would it be 50 points apart in the rest of the world? That doesn’t make sense. The entire OECD gap is even smaller than it is for the USA.

          • Col_Conran

            Yes, read above blog link & the comment by Daniela Rosche probably sums up best how he’s blog is flawed in he’s reasoning.

            I find the people who have the best understanding of poverty are the “Global Poverty Project”. They are actually trying to do something about poverty & not just dismissing facts because it suits their agenda.

            So I would believe http://www.globalpovertyproject.com/infobank/women before I would believe your blogger.

          • duh

            Do the same thing now consider how many of those countries have computers? How many have modern healthcare? Automobiles? Your argument was clearly invalid. Feminism isn’t the attribute that makes a country inherently good, just as automobiles or computers don’t. These things are products of other qualities.

          • Col_Conran

            Rubbish, you can choose to turn a blind eye, but the facts are there.It is males who stop the education of women & girls, so they’re dependent on men & can be kept under male control.

            Male Dominance = war, poverty & no progress

            Feminize a country = peace,proper food for women & children, but best of all there is progress.

            We live in a world in which women living in poverty face gross inequalities and injustice from birth to death.

            Find out how the real world operates when men refuse women education,

            http://www.globalpovertyproject.com/infobank/women

          • edtastic

            “Male Dominance = war, poverty & no progress

            Feminize a country = peace,proper food for women & children, but best of all there is progress.”

            That’s some anti male B.S. After spending all this time trying to hide the fact their is no disdain for men in feminism you come right out with it.

            I’m no fan of male dominance but it’s obvious how much humanity has achieved more under ‘male dominance’ which hasn’t even ended according to feminist. Humans are fairly interchangeable and having a penis doesn’t make you start killing people at random. We don’t spontaneously start wars because men are working outside the home and women in the home.

            People are people and if feminist weren’t sexist they wouldn’t assume women have magic powers of peace. I’ve seen enough violent girl fights to understand that’s not true. Women can be just as aggressive especially when not constrained by gender roles. Juvenile assault arrest rates for girls are rising rapidly while boys are declining. It’s a new day and old feminist gender stereotypes are finally being tested and we’re more equal than we ever imagined. The fairer sex is just as flawed and capable of brutish behavior when acting like a lady is no longer a concern.

            Your inability to distinguish between correlation and causation has you sold on bogus theories of how things come to pass. Educating girls is great along with gender equality but places that lack it have much bigger problems that aren’t caused by their failure to address women’s issues.

          • Col_Conran

            Bullshit, It’s only when a country is freed from male dominance that it moves forward. By this I mean, once men stop trying to control everything a female does, he can then move on to what he does best, e.g build great building, invent things to make life easier & better for all.

            Yes girls can be violent, but only a very naive man would make a statement girls are just as violent (that’s just pure BS)

            Another thing that needs to be pointed out, how religious a country is the more male dominant it will be & the less progressive it will be, religion holds countries back. Wars are usually caused by religious differences or land ownership. All religions are made up of male dominance (male came first, which is total BS) & the males that follow these religions will kill in the name of their so called God & still think they’re going to heaven.

            The biggest threat to this world is unchecked male dominance, how do you think the Taliban came about ??? Men start the wars & then men have to fight the wars & it’s
            usually the women in these war torn countries that suffer the most.

        • Gloria

          I will admit to the facts. I will admit that there is not one day that goes by that I wish that I was dead because I can’t rise up in this society. I will admit that no matter how hard I try to do what is right, it will always be considered wrong. How do you think Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin got into office? They had to agree, not disagree. The only way we will EVER EVER rise up, is if we lie, die, or become a man. That is the cold hard truth, and everyone on this page needs to freaking accept that. Why do you think men tell you feminism is bad? Hmm.. let’s see. Oh.. right, because feminism doesn’t have anything to do with you objectively. Right.. well let me just pack up my bags and go to a woman only island..

          • Col_Conran

            You’re not alone Gloria in thinking that way. Women will still retire on a lot less money than men because their earning power is way behind men
            (men don’t have to leave the work force to give birth). But take heart, it is changing SLOWLY.

            I wasn’t encouraged to get a College education, my father didn’t see it as important, he said some man will take care of me. What bad advice that was!! my father was of the view men will always do right by women & as you know this isn’t always the case.

            My first guy was a abusive asshole, & he was only ever interested in his interest & I was there for sex, put himself first in everything. Smartest thing I ever did was break up with him.
            In a way I need to thank that asshole because I learned so much from the relationship. He turned me into a feminist, so thanks Gary!!

            The advice I give to my daughter is, you can achieve anything. Marry if you want! IF the man is going to enhance your life. You both can then help each other achieve goals in life. But if he is only interested in he’s interests & not yours, get rid of him, as he will only hold you back in life.

            But the great thing I see happening now, is there are many great smart men out there, who want a good life for not only themselves , but for women as well. T

            & us women just need to find the right one, which I have & life can be wonderful for all. My biggest big tip for all the women out there !! don’t marry a MRA….lol

      • Sameer

        The rest of the group never bothers to denounce the “minority”. So the arguments in the article remain questionable. Those who do stop identifying as feminists.

        • Daniel

          why can’t they just say they are egalitarian. Why this obligation to say one is a feminist?

          • WillowFish

            Because if they just say they are egalitarian then, as with the “men’s issues” issue, the women’s voices tend to get passed over in favor of men’s voices. Much the same as when there was a panel of 5 men making policy decisions about women’s health. As an example.

            And for every person who says that feminists don’t “denouce the ‘minority’” I really only have this to say: I am a feminist and I regularly, and loudly denounce those feminists who make feminists look like a bunch of man-bashing harpies and so do most of the feminists I know. Ergo, your argument is based on a false premise.

          • Mark Neil

            Because our mostly male government has demonstrated they will always put men’s issues over womens. And we have a plethora of men’s health organizations, and significantly more funding for male specific cancers over women, or sentencing disparities in criminal cases that favor men over women, to a degree that even surpasses that of whites over blacks… and then there is the violence against men act.

            Oh wait… all those benefits actually favor women, not men. I guess your assertion women’s concerns would get passed over in favor of men’s issues is complete bullshit.

          • WillowFish

            Are you shitting me? Male specific cancers DO get significantly more funding than female specific cancers. Male specific illnesses IN GENERAL get more funding than female specific ones.

            I don’t see any legislation getting passed to keep employers from covering your Viagra, now do I? But PLENTY of politicians try to make sure that birth control (which is used for more than just birth control) isn’t covered.

            Women get lighter sentences because of the sexist idea that they are “just women” and not really a threat.

            And violence against men? How about we stop raising men to think that violence is a viable solution to solve their problems? That’ll clear that shit right the fuck up considering it’s men that commit a majority of the violence in this country.

          • Col_Conran

            Well said again, but watch out the anti-femo’s will try to give example’s of female violence being as bad, which is garage by the way. Violence is mainly a male problem. It comes down to male hormones, some men can control them, some can’t & there lies the problem that results in the majority of violent crimes.

          • Mark Neil

            “Men and women are exactly the same. There are no biological differences between the sexes. Oh, except men are inherently more violent, homophobic and women are inherently smarter, kinder and more compassionate. Oh… male suicide?… go cry me a river”

            The hypocritical, ever shifting contradictory stances of feminists are astounding.

          • Col_Conran

            Rubbish again, you twist everything!!.

            Do your research on male suicide, men feel they have lost their way.
            One of the reasons is men see their fathers had a much easier time in life, they had extra privileges that the men of today are losing.
            Did men deserve these privileges because they were male (no they didn’t) Men need to wake up, life is never going backwards again to male dominance, the world now knows that causes nothing but misery.

            The hypocritical, ever shifting contradictory stances of the MRA is just astounding.

          • WillowFish

            I wonder if there is a name for this imaginary, female dominated world that Mark Neil lives in. It sure does sound peachy keen for us ladies. lmfao.

          • edtastic

            “One of the reasons is men see their fathers had a much easier time in life, they had extra privileges that the men of today are losing”

            This includes suicide rates for teens boys so stop making up crap by filling in the blanks with feminists affirming stereotypes about what men think and feel.

            I find it disgusting that a person would see high suicide rates and immediately go about attacking men for being privileged. These are human beings not props in your little gender game and we’re sick of waiting for people like you to grow a heart and simply care about men equally.

            Feminist are the ones who’ve lost their way not men.

          • Col_Conran

            Grow up yourself !!

            Read my comment again, I stating it was ONE of the reasons why some men suicide. I NEVER said it was the only reason.

            It is not an attack on men by saying men never deserved to have special privileges just because they were male.

            All humans should be treated equally & having a penis should never be a reason for special treatment or extra privileges & that has nothing to do with feminism or being a feminist.

          • Mark Neil

            “Male specific cancers DO get significantly more funding than female specific cancers. ”

            Let me guess. you “know” this because your sense of victimhood and your fellow victim cultists tell you so. Might want to actually do a little research on the subject, instead of relying on the information of those who want you to feel like a victim of the big bad men. In some countries, breast cancer gets 10 times the funding of prostate cancer. Just google “prostate cancer vs breast cancer funding” for a couple examples of news reporting on the subject.

            “But PLENTY of politicians try to make sure that birth control (which is used for more than just birth control) isn’t covered.”

            Bullshit. This is another example of propaganda made to make you feel victimized. What politician’s are opposing is “forcing” companies to cover BC. You are confusing being forced to cover something with being allowed to. The two concepts are not synonymous. If you want to demonstrate that companies are “forced” to cover viagra costs, whether they like it or not, that might be a legitimate argument. But it still doesn’t negate the fact there are a ton more government health organizations at the federal and state levels, with … 1 state level (and no federal) male health organization in all the US.

            “Women get lighter sentences because of the sexist idea that they are “just women” and not really a threat.”

            You can play off your privilege as victimization all you want, it’s still privilege. It just makes you appear even more like a professional victim when even the things that benefit you are being portrayed as victimization. It actually undermines your other claims, as how many of your claims of just attempting to turn everyday shit into some kind of oppression?

            “How about we stop raising men to think that violence is a viable solution to solve their problems?”

            The number one indicator of whether a woman gets abused in a relationship is whether SHE HITS FIRST. It should also be noted that many men (particularly those who are violent) are raised by single mothers… meaning they are learning their “violence as a solution” from women. How about we stop pretending violence is a male issue, and address it as a human issue. Or do you just not like the idea of being held to the same standard you expect of men? Do you prefer women still having violence as a solution?

            “That’ll clear that shit right the fuck up considering it’s men that commit a majority of the violence in this country.”

            More like it’s men who are held accountable for most violence. For example, the man in this clip was attacked with violence first, and simply RESPONDED with violence… guess which of the two is currently sitting in jail? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Kszzfe3F38

            The only statement you made that even comes close to addressing what I actually said was the lie about cancer funding. At no point in your post do you even come close to countering the assertion that men put women’s needs first… always have… which is completely contrary to your previous claim that women’s concerns would be drowned out under egalitarianism.

      • Guest

        The rest of the group has never attempted to denounce the “minority”. Those who denounce are trying to get away from modern feminism like Christina Hoff Sommers or Camille Paglia. Unless I see main stream feminist actively criticize these “minority elements” I will continue to believe feminists hate men because to me you are the minority. I see them not you in the mainstream media.

      • Daniel

        It is not the minority. It is the majority and the principles of the movement. You can make feminism so slit up and vague it gets away with everything, but then it becomes a meaningless word.

        It is most certainly not a minority view in feminism that shows anti male feeling. If the groups has an ideology, you can hold a view of that groups because of that ideology. It is not generalising, no more than opposing racist groups because you don’t approve of racism.

        Bianca, your answer is incorrect and wishy washy. It also conradicts itself. You say it differs from country to country “there is no such thing as ONE feminist ideology. Feminism differs from country to country and even area to area.” But you make a general statement about the group. Even though what you are replying to is quite specific and your own description of it’s diverse nature, precludes you from doing that.

        Feminists always pull this “minority” or “not all” bull in defence of feminism. It is either lying or making the term feminism redundant.

        Perhaps egalitarian should replace feminism. Solidarity rather than representing our own gender?

        Why this desperation to hang onto a divisive, at best, movement.

        • Bianca Arlette

          I believe it is you who is incorrect. The principles of the movement is not the hatred of men because it is not about lifting women above men, it is about lifting them onto the same level. Or, in the case of (e.g.) family courts, eliminating the preferential treatment of women which in itself is based on the old-fashioned and sexist belief that a woman automatically has to be the better care-giver.
          I am not sure the term Egalitarian would work because how can solidarity be pushed forward when one half of the supposed partnership is not equal in rights and respect.

          • Daniel

            the feminist movement did at one stage object to alimony and bias towards men re access to their children. But they reversed that.

      • Sameer Desai

        How do you know that it is a minority? If it is a minority why is it the only part of the group visible in mainstream media? Why has the “good” majority done nothing to denounce this minority?

        Could it be that your kind of feminists are the real minority?

        It is a group’s responsibility to disown the actions of its members that it doesn’t want to be judged for because those members are using your groups banner to commit those actions.

        • WillowFish

          Because of sensationalism. It’s the same reason that so many Americans think that all Muslims are terrorists.

          The media consistently portrays the worst members of a group as representative of the group and ignores everyone else in the group. The author actually addressed that in the article. -_-

      • Mark Elkins

        The poster did not accuse you of anything. He was making a point about the feminist movement. Men feel accused routinely for a myriad of horrible acts that most men do not commit. Is the world unfair and unsafe? YES! We are taught this as chilren. bad people do bad things. The majority may be men but to condemn men because of it is a disservice o your fathers, brothers, sons and the other men in your lives who work with you and not against you. Men suffer at a much higher level in virtually every catagory than do women. The possible exception may be rape. Violence won’t o away. Blame the individuals who are violent not half the population. One last thing. I am an American citizen. You may not like what may say or think but I will not be reeducated to be acceptable to the feminist ideal. Just as women should not be defined by men I object to feminists defining what manhood is or what it should be.

        • Col_Conran

          I just don’t get where you are coming from with these statements, you talk in total circles.

          “Men feel accused routinely for a myriad of horrible acts”

          If you don’t commit these acts then why take it that they mean you personally ??. These acts happen & yes it is mainly men, would you rather people weren’t made aware that it is men that do these things & when there is a male murdering people we just say “a human has murdered people”?? would that make you feel better as a man ??

          Feminist don’t want to tell men what being a man is ?? If you treat people with respect no matter what sex they are, then more power to you.

          You are lumping together here what you think a feminist is. You are doing the same here that you think people do to men in general. Yes there will be feminist who are full on, but is that all feminists NO it isn’t.

        • WillowFish

          Yup. We’re taught that bad people do bad things. That’s also bullshit. Everybody does bad things. Everybody does good things. The idea that the only people who commit rape are swarthy, mustachio’d “bad guys” is silly and completely detracts from the point that a lot of rapes go unreported simply BECAUSE everyone has that attitude that only “bad people” do bad things. No one believes when someone says “Yeah, I was raped by the star quarterback.” because he doesn’t fit the stereotype we all have in our heads of the “bad people” who do bad things.

          But really, what it comes down to is this: get THE FUCK over yourself. Your feelings mean jackshit when you hold them up to ACTUAL harm. So you feel accused of something you didn’t do? That’s a damn shame. Not nearly as much of a shame as the statistics on violence against women and rape. Entitled ass.

      • guest

        “Feminism differs from country to country and even area to area.”
        Your religion is founded on man hate and perpetual victim hood. womyn = good, men = bad, children should be slaughtered.

        The deceptions and misdirections vary from area to area because not all are effective. Quit with the lies and propaganda, we all know what the religion of man hate and perpetual victim hood is truly about.

    • Blue

      Men need to be taught to respect women and not rape BECAUSE MEN RAPE. You’re taking your anger out on the wrong group, buddy.

      • Rose

        And? WOMAN RAPE. Seriously, do you have ANY idea how many guy friends I actually have who have admitted to me about being sexually touched by WOMAN when they were kids? While america has a horrible history if victim blame, they are even worse with the “men can’t be raped.” belief.

        If 67% of raped girls don’t tell the police, imagine how it is for men. and this is coming from a girl.

        people like you are why people like me thing feminism is nothing more than man hate these days, and it’s stupid.

        • Alia Stephen

          DID PEOPLE READ THE ARTICLE??

          On the point of teaching men not to rape:
          Everyone needs to be taught things. As a child – a girl, I might add, and the boys were taught the same – I was taught both at school and at home that

          a) my body belongs to me and no one else
          b) if someone, anyone, touches in a way I don’t like, I should tell a grownup I trust
          c) because I want my body respected, I need to respect other people’s bodies as well and it is never okay for me to touch them without their permission

          In as much a way as you can teach 4-7 year olds, they were teaching us not to rape. I was also taught not to use violence to solve my problems, and I don’t take this to mean that I’m a potential violent maniac (not more than anyone else).

          Teaching men not to rape isn’t meant to accuse men, it’s meant as an alternative for a lot of what goes on in terms of victim blaming – the woman puts herself in dangerous situations so it’s her fault she got raped.

          There is a lot of stigma towards male victims of sexual abuse, even more than female victims, but the sentiment behind teaching men not to rape is anti-victim-blaming, not anti-men. There’s a way to challenge the way that it’s done without throwing away the idea altogether. Same with feminism. Most feminism is a lot more than men hate, but people are so ready to focus on the men-hating aspect of SOME of it that the see misandry where there isn’t any and completely misinterpret those just pointing out injustice.

          • kofybean

            When are you gonna round up all the Muslims and teaching them not to be terrorist. Or round up all the black people and teach them to not be criminals. Saying rounding up all the boys and teaching them not to be rapist is about as anti-men as you can get. Your doctrine clearly supports the view that all men are, by default, rapist.

          • Col_Conran

            well said !!

    • elfishpenguin

      Who are these mythical “feminists” you’re quoting in your comment? Seriously, you say that the Council on Violence Against Women released a report and that “feminists did nothing.” What feminists? That council is in itself the result of feminist action. The people who work in that council are feminists. The acknowledgement of gender-specific issues as well as structural and institutional gendered issues in our government is the result of feminist activism. Feminists didn’t “do nothing,” feminists created the council and authored the report.

      Feminist just means people that recognize that there are imbalances in the way we integrate gender into our worldview and treatment of others, and that we believe there should be equality between people and within institutions. That’s all.

      Yes, there is sexual assault and violence against men. How is the fact that your community didn’t have resources to deal with that a failure of “feminism?” That’s a failure of your community, from everyone in all aspects of political ideologies who had influence in your community. That means everyone from feminists to libertarians to republicans to democrats to whatever other wonky or not-wonky political ideology that has influence and action in your community failed.

      If you lived in a place that considered all gay men to be child molesters, I’m guessing you were not living in a place very tolerant of strides towards gender equality – aka feminism – and sadly, these are usually the worst places for violence against other men and discrimination against men. That’s what “patriarchy,” a term often used in gender theory as well as political science – is, it’s that there’s a societal hegemony of masculinity that’s determined by dominance and violence. Locales that are more determined against questioning typical gender traits and structures and less questioning of this hegemony we call patriarchy are places where abuse will be able to run rampant because nobody will want to admit to male weakness or the need for help for men. This is a basic core of “feminism” as well as most accepted contemporary political theory, and it basically is the opposite of everything you wrote about feminism “ignoring” male problems, which in your turn of phrasing, somehow means that issues affecting men are the result of feminists. It’s really the opposite – any book that you read on feminism, from “Gender Vertigo” to “The Gendered Society” to more specific books discussing issues on gender and violence – acknowledges that gender inequality is two-sided and harmful to the whole spectrum of humanity. Trying to dismiss a basic and necessary humanist and human rights ideology – feminism – as being a “hate group” is woefully misinformed of any of the fundamental elements for which it stands.

    • guest

      oh my god no. we say to teach men not to rape because women are told how to act to not get raped. telling a woman how to act not to get raped implies that all men are potential rapists and we must act accordingly so they can control themselves. you should teach men not to rape (tell him no means no, to leave her alone if she’s had too much to drink, respect her) so the ones who actually are rapists may actually leave the woman the fuck alone. this is a different case for men who rape children and men, of course.

      • KallufraxMinor

        I hate to say this, but saying “teach men not to rape” implies the very thing you claim to be decrying- that men are by our very nature, rapists from birth. And, here’s the thing Professor Curie; people ARE taught not to rape, but that doesn’t stop men OR women(because yes, women can do it too) from committing rape, because those people are defective to begin with. I mean, it’s not like the phrase “no means no” is part of public consciousness, right?

        • Daniel

          you are using logic there my friend, feminists are not logical, it damages their cause to be.

          • Col_Conran

            no his not using logic, men have differing opinions on what rape is

          • Daniel

            you could not be more wrong col, the definition of rape is only vague and shifting in feminist circles. Men don’t, men see it as non consensual sex, forced sex… sane people see it this way. others see it as having sex drunk so legally not being able to consent, ignoring the fact the man was drunk too… and so on. No man could say with a straight face what feminists come out with constantly.

          • Col_Conran

            no the definition of rape is what the LAW says it is, not what feminists say it is & definitely not what men say it is. The LAW tells us what is & some men try to change the LAW the suit themselves. NO is NO, no other law needed, drunk or otherwise.

        • WillowFish

          Not at all.

          If you knew the stats about what people think rape is (versus what it actually is) then you would understand EXACTLY why we want to teach men “not to rape”.

          “A 2010 survey reported by Sky News revealed 46 percent of men aged 18 to 25 do not consider it rape if a man continues to penetrate a woman after she has changed her mind. Last week a survey conducted by Rape Crisis and Reveal magazine showed a third of women do not believe a rape to have taken place if an alleged victim did not fight back. It’s only eight years since a poll by Amnesty International suggested 8 percent of people believe a woman to be totally – that’s totally – responsible for rape if she’s had many sexual partners. The truth is, an alarming number of people are very comfortable indeed with the idea of rape in certain circumstances. Like George Galloway, they merely see it as “bad sexual etiquette”. Rape doesn’t horrify them, not a bit; rape accusations do.” -(http://www.newstatesman.com/glosswitch/2013/09/there-no-great-stigma-attached-being-rapist)

          • Nix_Nightbird

            And therefore, ALL men are demons who want to force women into sex and must be treated that way?

            How about you target only the ones who DO act poorly, and not generalize by saying you need to teach men not to rape. How about saying “teach rapists not to rape”, instead?

            There. That was easy, and it doesn’t slander an entire gender or assume that all members of said gender are villains awaiting a victim.

          • WillowFish

            Okay, then teach rapists not to rape.

            I think it goes a bit further than that, but that’s at least a start. More importantly than “teach rapists/men/women/children/aliens not to rape” is “teach EVERYONE about enthusiastic consent and bodily autonomy”.

            But, honestly, getting hung up on “Hey, you said teach MEN not to rape instead of teach RAPISTS not to rape” is just a case of missing the forest for the trees. Yes, teach rapists not to rape, most of whom are men. To the tune of them being more than 90% of all rapist.

            To put numbers on it, 90% of rapists are men but 10% of men are rapists.

          • Col_Conran

            totally agree, now your talking logic, some of the anti feminists on here will have trouble with that. Anti feminist don’t do logic

        • Amy

          I completely understand what you mean when you say teaching men not to rape implies that men are rapists from birth.
          The thing is, teaching women how not to get raped (i.e. don’t wear a skirt, don’t get drunk, etc.) implies that the mere fact that we have legs and breasts makes us rape-able.
          It also gives the (wrong) idea that women are the only gender who gets raped, and it’s only by men. This simply isn’t true.

          It’s a tricky one – I personally think consent should be a much larger topic in sexual education in schools. That way, no gender is blamed, but simply educated about consent. What do you think?

      • JohnHousecat

        “you should teach men not to rape (tell him no means no, to leave her
        alone if she’s had too much to drink, respect her) so the ones who
        actually are rapists may actually leave the woman the fuck alone.”

        I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the “ones who actually are rapists” are gonna rape no matter what–*THAT IS WHY THEY “ACTUALLY ARE RAPISTS”*. What even is your logic?!

  • Lamer Wahba

    what hatred !!
    if there is some feminists who hate men that is because they have been through sufferings with them
    as for men i think when we talk about feminism man see himself as guilty as he does not give the women the expected support . he deals with feminism with a complete caution which is always interpreted as fear of equality maybe because it puts him into comparison . the conflict was and will still existed as each of them thinks that the other is trying to oppress his rights.
    but as for the ideology of feminism i think women need justice more than equality
    did you know that the pay gap between men and women for the same job is about 13%
    so ,from one hand we give them an equal opportunities and from the other hand oppression is still practiced

    • Dominic Blais

      that’s because the dumb bitch friend zoned the good guys for not being sexually predatory enough

      • Pam

        And you wonder why you’re not getting any…

    • keine rhobar

      lol ahahahahahahaha

  • Dominic Blais

    the bad thing where done by religion GOD, and faith way more than men in general. but now the average man is miserable has no hopes of ever being happily in a relationship

  • Koko

    In order for feminism to truly succeed they need to take proper notes from the civil rights movement, mainly with the name.

    The civil rights movement was more successful than the black panther movement because it was labeled properly and didn’t seem as militant to give the neigh sayer ammo to reject it like the plague.
    Civil rights
    Black rights
    Wish one sounds better to you?
    Now, Feminism
    Humanism/ equalization.
    You see how much better that is how much more support you get when the name of your movement doesn’t sound so discriminating regardless if it is or not?

    Saying its all cherry picking is cherry picking in its self there are plenty of extremely loud radical feminist who believe men never had it hard because they’re men and all men sit on Gold and silver thrones while women slave away and do the real work, Brando McGreggo is one of them, labeling anyone who disagrees with the current state of feminism a misogynists or a sexist, its just like my old English teach say some of the psychopaths we read about were such because they hated women, when it was clearly due to them being obsessive and possessive about everything, man woman, dog, cat, shirt, pants, EVERYTHING

    • Dominic Blais

      ya feminism means no woman may ever be treated like a man daily. and sense all men are treated like shit in every day in every aspect of life except if he views women as a sex object than he is rewarded and praised by feminist while the men who are kind and treat women like people are called creepy and dis honest and sexist shamed and shunned by those cunts for doing exactly what they said they wanted to be treated like a human being

      • Ina Plassa-travis

        …I wonder if you get the irony, considering that if you are lacking in companionship or beneficial social contacts…I’d say it’s because you’re a raging creep that even Rush Limbaugh would think twice about being seen in public with.

  • Dominic Blais

    because women reward the rapist male model the best way a man can get sex is to treat all women the same as sex objects. the second a guy likes a woman for more than her looks he is ridiculed shunned, shamed and hated for being able to see beyond her outside appearance.the nice guy is the one who wants to know you first does not want sex when he meets you unless it’s her idea. this attitude of modern feminist is the number one promoting factor in rape culture men have needs not wants.when women accept men need sex than feminism is about equality and the reward men for not treating them like sex objects but now only the guys who hate women truly get laid

  • Phil Henderson

    This whole thing is a load of crap.

    #1: Where are the denunciations by feminists of those who hate men? Jessica Valenti, one of today’s most popular feminists, has pushed legislation that would cause men accused of rape to be automatically found guilty. How many other prominent feminists have called her a bigot for this? Zero. Amanda Marcotte, another popular feminist, has said before that anyone who doubts a woman’s accusation of rape, no matter how shoddy, is “rape-loving scum”. Meg Lanker-Simons, a student at Wyoming with a history of violent behavior, fabricated a rape threat against herself on Facebook, was caught red-handed, and still has hordes of feminists who defend her.

    #2: Since the movement began, feminists have been spewing anti-male bile. Elizabeth Cady Stanton declared that “Women are, in every sense, men’s superiors.” Emmeline Pankhurst, leader of the Suffragettes, burned down the home of an MP (even though he was urging to extend the right to vote to women), and encouraged her followers to commit numerous acts of violence against men for the sake of their political objectives. In addition, she only fought for the voting rights of women who shared her socioeconomic status.

    #3: When asked why they think women are still oppressed, most feminists point to the low percentages of women in positions of positions of political and economic power (while conveniently ignoring the academic world). Not only do they forget that such powers are in the hands of only a few men, leaving most men powerless, they are also implicitly stating that having a man in a position of power is an inherently bad thing. That is misandry, no matter how you slice or dice it.

    #4: If it were simply due to their unwillingness to address men’s issues, you’d hear a lot less from men’s activists on these subjects. However, feminists have also been actively blocking discussion of men’s issues. At the University of Toronto, when Warren Farrell was there to speak on the issues of male suicides and dropout rates, campus feminists tore down posters advertising the events (a violation of freedom of speech under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms), physically blocked the doors (a fire hazard), and screamed obscenities at people attempting to attend the speech. A couple months later, when another group of speakers was present to talk on the subject of male-bashing, campus feminists protested loudly outside of the hall where the speech was taking place, trying to drown out the speakers, and pulled the fire alarm in an attempt to have the presentation shut down (a felony under Canadian law). Now, they have convinced Facebook to implement new rules whereby they censor posts that are critical of feminism. Also, see #1: they are willing to throw men under the bus to achieve progress for women.

    #5: The issues that feminists push for today are mostly First World Problems. Women aren’t discriminated against in Family Courts, aren’t forced to fight in wars in any country (not even Israel–there, they aren’t required to serve in Infantry units if they don’t want to), have higher health care expenditures, and making fun of women is far less acceptable than making fun of men.

    Try reading Nathanson and Young’s “Misandry” series: Spreading Misandry, Legalizing Misandry, and Sanctifying Misandry, then maybe you’ll understand the REAL reasons so many men hate feminism.

    • StudlyDoRight

      Wow. While I’m not going to do a full sort of rebuttal here, I’ll try and get the most important ones…

      1 (and all the rest of your points, actually): You couldn’t really have missed the point harder if it’d been the point of a rocket fired into space. One feminist, or even a large group of feminists, DOES NOT EQUAL all feminists. The term “silent majority” explains most of the things you cite rather well: the majority of feminists (male and female) are entirely sane people who don’t shout their views from rooftops. Unfortunately, as in any field, the people most likely TO shout their views are also the people most likely to have the more extreme views, so the extremists get all the attention.

      That just about covers 2: as well. Let’s move on.

      3: The issue here isn’t that men having positions of power is a bad thing. It’s that having ALL the positions of power (or very nearly, anyway) occupied by men is the exact opposite of gender equality. A 50/50 split would be an ideal situation since those are roughly the proportions of women to men in the general population – currently in most fields it’s more like 85-99% male.

      4. Hmm. I wonder if men have ever done anything to suppress women’s rights…
      Sarcasm aside, this goes back to the “extremism” thing. Picking a few examples of extremists and condemning the entire movement isn’t valid.

      Also, I’ve been paging through Facebook’s rules and I don’t see a single thing related to censorship of ANYTHING. It’s against their rules to post hate speech, but “criticisms of feminism” don’t fall under that category unless you’re actually, say, advocating rape of feminist figures, and that would get removed even if you substituted any other word for “feminist” in that sentence.

      5. Can’t say for sure on this one, but it’s pretty natural to focus on your own issues first regardless of how much worse other people’s are. You certainly have been.

      • Eric

        I suppose I’ll try to counter some of your points here.

        1. It’s interesting that you would bring this up. Perhaps it is only those few radical feminists whom had been shouting non-stop and perhaps the majority of the feminists are silent. Wait a second, why are the majority of supposed “sane” feminists all so silent when the most vocal feminists are openly bashing the males? You have the numbers(supposed majority) so why are they heard while opposition from the fellow feminists scarce? Its as if bullies are attempting to beat up someone and that the majority of the bystanders are simply watching, enjoying the show. It is almost as if you approve of this. If you are disagree with their agenda, why have I not seen the strong opposition that you would have when it came to misogynist comments ? Also, you still refer to these man-haters as “feminists”. Somehow, you would continue to distinguish them as one of your own. Family sticks together?

        3. Perhaps that may be the statistics as of now, that males continue to dominate the upper echelons of power. But what the point that you are missing here is that many of these leaders are old. They came from past generations when women just gained equality by law. These old men had accumulated vast experience from previous endeavors and are thus most suited to the positions they hold(i.e. they built the company themselves etc etc). But, as time progresses, newer and younger generations of leaders are emerging and the dominant force in that are women. South Korea had just gotten its first females president. The province of Ontario had just accepted its first openly lesbian premier. The times are changing, but slowly. You can not simply push someone in to positions of power through preference and for the mere sake of gender inequality(In terms of numbers). I do not see the push for female soldiers or construction workers, where these highly dangerous jobs are still vastly dominated by men. Why do the men have to do the dirty work? It simply isn’t fair.

        4. Again, why are these people allowed to make these male-bashing comments under your banner? Under our eyes, these feminists are simply voicing their concerns for the greater whole. Unless this “majority” speak up, and I mean REALLY speak up, then perhaps we can learn to interpret feminists differently. To put in a metaphor, it is simply the same as a leader giving declarations of war while its people bring up little to no objections despite, perhaps a slight disagreement with the idea of war.

        5. These ARE your issues. these are the feminist issues that you guys have been fighting for. And this whole misandrist issue is ALSO a feminist issue. These radical feminists are rallying under your own banner to call for their own agenda and yet you refuse to stop them. You have to be on one side or the other, so if you aren’t against them, you are most likely for them. Unless, you pose neutrality which still nonetheless leads others to be believe you are among them. Because if you are not going to speak out for the ideals of your group, then someone else is.

        So in conclusion, humanist is now the way to a brighter future. ^^

      • Gene Novak

        Obviously, most feminists don’t support all the views of the radicals but their culture has bled into society. Look at the response the cast and audience gave to having his penis cut off by his girlfriend for breaking up w/her. That’s not extremists those were average women. I can guarantee you if something as savage happened to a woman most men would probably try to kill the man or at the least wouldn’t laugh about it. It’s amazing women claim they’re the empathetic ones. There was an issue I hard of with Facebook blocking MRAs and such but the one that was really ridiculous is Norton Antivirus was blocking access to MRA sites (but didn’t block radical fem sites). As far as the power thing, few men have power, and I suspect the driving force for a lot of them is increasing their potential to get hot women. A lot of guys value quality of life less and are willing to sacrifice for the company. They should be more successful. Frankly, look at women graduating from Ivy League schools. There’s been studies done recently that the ones who are the most educated have been dropping out of the workforce in higher droves than the lower educated. BTW, where the women working in their basement or garage building the next facebook or the next technical marvel. I never hear of them.

      • kofybean

        How am I oppressing you? And what position of power do I have that is destroys equality?

  • http://www.infinitestupidity.net/ Richie White

    Loved the article, too bad about some of the comments

    • Vitaly Klitschko

      How’s your inner mangina, Richie? I’m guessing it’s well into pegging. Or do you prefer the good ole Philly Sidecar?

  • Bill

    My sincere question is, are women who are feminists MORE LIKELY to hate men than women who are not feminists? Just curious.

    • LT

      Or are miandristic women drawn to feminism to ‘justify’ their bigotry?

      • rhymes

        Very well said

      • guest

        Since feminism IS the religion of man hate and perpetual victim hood, it makes sense that misandrists would flock to the coven.

  • Kane

    One of the biggest issues with this article is all the “buts”.

    Every point starts off with an outstanding explanation of equality and sets the next paragraph up for a detailed explanation on how the issue needs to be addressed but instead begins it with a metaphoric “but..”

    Just as not all Feminists (since those spouting sexist idiocy are not Feminists in the first place) are causing the contention between equality, it’s hardly an issue of “men cherry picking quotes”.

    The 1-in-4 ignorance is still spouted. The wage gap myth (in the Western world) is still shown. Domestic violence statistics are quoted not as an exaggeration but as a blatant fact of “99% of men” being responsible, despite a consistent 30-40% to 60% split every time.

    It’s not women hating idiots who are cherry picking anything, it’s the countless faux Feminist websites, blogs, authors and commentators (the biggest example of how a group feels) that are spouting off that sexist nonsense. I don’t see many, condescendingly called, “MRA’s” jumping in to spout off sexist claims when someone points out on a highly rated Feminist site that, contrary to the claim of the article, men can be raped by women. I see a incredible amount of “feminists” jumping it to tell them to “check their privilege” and before desperately attempting to shout him down with the same fallacies you claim “only a few use”, usually ending with actual jokes about rape.

    Feminism remains the same regardless of how many pathetic, stupid faux feminists hijack it. But they are still there. STILL there being the loudest, visible self-styled representation of Feminism. And that’s the issue. That’s what people see. The amount of times i’ve had to explain to both men and women that have decided to reject the idea of Feminism outright that all of their gender equality beliefs are exactly what Feminism is and that they are in fact Feminists has been met with surprise. They’ve been brought up thinking that the Feminist movement is misandrist and ignorant. Not because of other men but because of all the examples they’ve ever seen IN the Feminist movement.

    Illogical anti-women arguments are easy enough to shut down. But they are riding on the back of the visible anti-men movement hiding amongst Feminists. The ONLY way this issue is going to be addressed is if we shout down any disgusting sexist idiot who is pretending to be a Feminist. If some idiot comes in spouting off hatred for women, you shut them down. Then if some idiot comes in and says all men are rapists, you shut them down to.

    We can prove the misogynists wrong and remove them very easily. But we can’t remove all the misandrists hiding in the Feminist movement unless those IN the Feminist movement refuse to sit back and let their sexist ignorance represent them.

    All it does is make an entire generation of people identify that unopposed sexism with Feminism.

  • Lone bird

    This article is poorly written and bashes men who posses masculinity. Though I’ll give you atleast two cookies for a few good points, but, take one back for bad grammar by a self-proclaimed writer.

    And anybody who thinks one gender, race, nationality, or cultural is to blame for all the worlds problems are utterly complete morons. I’m now gonna pee on that cookie.

    It’s funny the majority of people I’ve meet that describes themselves as feminists are full of hate for men and they blame their shortcomings and failure on male oppression.

    Feminism is just another hate group hiding behind fancy wording, lies, misguided truths, and the genuinely good people, you seem like one of them, who actually believe the lies are truths, like a person against racism and discrimination against homosexuals in the KKK to advance the intrests of Whites. Being you don’t actually stand for what your group stands for I think you should find a new group or make one that actually does stand for what you falsely believe your current group stands for.

    Question, why is suicide the 11th leading cause of death in men, 3rd leading cause of death in boys/young men 15-24, and outnumber the “horrible oppressed, raped, and whatever” female suicide 4:1? Boy oppressing women must be stressful or the feminist movement has made life as a male so oppressed and difficult that death is better than life. So to use a quote from people fighting for women superiority and male enslavement “I know women still face some problems, but, I don’t have time to care because we have to many problems facing our young males today in a society that has WHITE women at the top, alongside really old white men.”

    Last, learn what a majority really means morons. Old white males are the rich majority, but, they care as little about low class white males as they do all black males and black females. So please stop including me in their group and other White/Male groups that your pseudo research and made up statistics keep including me in you hypocritical cherry-picking hate filled morons.

    http://www.avoiceformen/activism/about
    Good read with research and resources quoted. All you feminists oppressed Sadia Arabian style might want to skip it. Btw that is true oppression of females and my heart, prayers, and love goes out to all the victims of Arabian/African style oppression. Sadly feminist are to busy achieving superiority to give a shit about true female oppression and rape. And yes I know not all Arabian/African culturals engage in that level of oppression, but, both areas have the worse female rights violations in the world. I’d rather declared war on Sudan over Darfur than Iraq or Afganistan over 9/11. And make Sadia Arbia our enemy than Iran. But, you Western society “oppressed females” are a lying joke.

    FYI, your comment section is buggy on my iDevice and made posting and editing a nightmare if you care to pass it on to your web designer.

  • Jeremiah Dewy Horne

    Feminists should really shift they’re focus to how women are treated in impoverished countries, and men in “developed” countries really need to start being vocal about our disadvantages and harmful cultural expectations like many women have over the past 100 years.

    It’s such a shame that some women use this whole thing for power over men then have the nerve to call themselves feminists, if they want anything more than EQUAL rights then they are not feminists. I wonder if they think men were happy when women were oppressed, somehow I don’t think anyone would have been.

  • Liam

    Why is it ok for you to insist that people look deeper in to feminism and see past the inflammatory and bigoted comments you and other commenters have mentioned and yet claim all MRAs blame all mens problems on feminism,in brackets no less? Personally meh, while I admire and ageee with your dedication to equality I think using the inherently exclusionary vehicle of FEMinism for it is misguided and ultimately harms the overall message more than it helps it. Like a Nazi that insists that you should focus on they’re economic policy.

  • Kiran Buenafe

    You forgot another reason why feminism has, and rightly so, a very bad rep. Feminists in the west complain about pedantic issues that are nothing more than media technicalities. “Oh no, this underwear ad offended me!”, “Oh my gosh, women in video games are nothing more than damsels in distress!”, “Sarah Palin said something about women being in the kitchen!” Never mind those women getting mutilated in Africa, raped to death in India, acid thrown in the faces of school girls in Afghanistan, being molested during protests in Egypt. Those aren’t real feminists issues. You’d much rather bitch about Abercrombie and Fitch ads. Sorry, but you feminists need to get your priorities straight. Feminism in the west is just another term for, “first world problems”. Why don’t you try helping in places where women need it most, places where patriarchy might actually exist? Not in your over feminized, over sensitized, pedantic dream world.

    • Like I’m telling YOU my name

      All sexism is wrong, by how much is only a matter of degree.

      If you think that feminists don’t care about overseas issues, think again: google for “Savita Happalanavar”, “Beatriz El Salvador”, and “eve ensler Congo rape” for proof to the contrary.

      • Kiran Buenafe

        Sorry, couldn’t hear you over your compatriots screaming about that “Blurred Lines” music video.

        • Like I’m telling YOU my name

          I provide PROOF that you’re talking shit and you attempt a pathetic put-down. Men belittling and ignoring women is a problem faced by women the world over, from Tahrir Square to the Houses of Parliament.

          • Kiran Buenafe

            I have proof too. The fact of the matter is, most feminists are too concerned with unimportant bullshit and not real human’s rights issues. That’s why feminism is an abysmal failure in the 21st century. Egalitarians do much better at prioritizing their grievances, starting with those with life and limb at risk and working their way down. Feminists just plaster websites like jezebel, tumblr, youtube, and w/e with petty squabbles over music videos. They even protest against egalitarian and MRA groups using violence and bully tactics when those groups don’t even care about feminists or their agendas. I have proof of that too. Naming a few groups off the top of your head on google doesn’t prove anything to me other than there are exceptions to every rule, and I already knew that. The exception doesn’t make the rule, however. Continue to let your fellow feminists whine and cry over stupid stuff and I have no reason to take any of you seriously.

          • Like I’m telling YOU my name

            I’m not responsible for the actions of other people, whether they call themselves feminists or not.

          • Kiran Buenafe

            And I’m not responsible for every crime, every man in existence has ever committed towards a woman, yet somehow feminists still seem to promote the idea that all men are either rapists or rape supporters. The difference between you and me is that I distance myself and divorce my ideologies from those of the radicals.

            I don’t like misogynists. I detest people who discriminate based on gender, MRA, feminist, or otherwise. I make my opposition to them known. You don’t. You act like the label of “feminist” is a club that means you’re all sisters and you’re all right in your own light. Sure, the others are just a little more extreme and promote violence, sexism, bully tactics, and misandry, but you’re all feminists in the end and you all stand for the same thing. That’s your problem. You’re wrong. You unify under labels instead of ideals and like-mindedness. My sense of self is more evolved than that. I know that MRAs who threaten and bully British MPs are wrong. I despise them for it. I don’t support them for it. I am not one of them and I never will be. The fact that they fight for men’s rights does not give me and them anything in common. No label will ever make me accept them. I support ideals, not labels. I can’t say the same for feminists.

          • Like I’m telling YOU my name

            Actually, I DON’T prom

          • Like I’m telling YOU my name

            Your argument that so-called “trivialities” don’t matter is bunk. A culture in which men feel sufficient entitlement over women’s bodies to grope tits and slap arses is a culture in which crossing the line to rape is much easier. Hence, the apparent triviality of groping is exposed as not at all trivial.

          • Kiran Buenafe

            And what culture would that be? Egypt? India? Iraq? Because here in the United States, all of that stuff is ILLEGAL, as in against the law. Not only that, but if a man came up to a cop and said a woman sexually assaulted him, he has almost zero chance of being taken seriously, let alone getting charges filed. So yes, all of the crap feminists complain about is not only trivial, but untrue. Men can’t just walk up and grope you on the street, not if they want to stay out of jail. That isn’t even socially acceptable, as a lot of guys would step in if they saw another guy sexually harassing a woman. It’s widely regarded as wrong and practically shoved down our throats by the media, daily. You’re comparing apples and oranges here. I said feminists complain about stupid things like the Blurred Lines music video. You ran straight to sexual assault. The two aren’t even remotely comparable, and latter isn’t even something acceptable in our culture.

          • Like I’m telling YOU my name

            Here’s what the British state prosecutors think of 13 year-old girls who are sexually abused by much older men: http://courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/?public_id=33935

            If you think that sexual assault isn’t acceptable, think again. Look at how many bystanders did NOTHING to help the Steubenville victim. Look at the death threats she received from OTHER GIRLS in her town after those boys were jailed. Look at how Ched Evans’ (British footballer) fans named his victim on Twitter and branded her “slut” and similar insults, despite him being proven guilty in court.

            These “trivial” music videos that depict misogyny and show women only as sex objects contribute to a culture in which women are deemed to exist for male enjoyment, a culture in which a man’s desire to get his dick wet is deemed less important than a woman’s right to bodily autonomy. “Egalitarianism” means not ignoring stuff like this.

          • Guest

            PS: I am aware that a man reporting a sexual assault faces disbelief. Newsflash: so do women. We are routinely accused of lying about sexual assault.

            You should look at the Everyday Sexism Project. There are plenty of examples there of women who’ve been groped on public transport, have shouted at their attacker, and been told by OTHER passengers to be quiet. So much for sexual assault being “socially unacceptable”.

  • Robin Fox

    I find your lack of research and analysis displeasing. What a lovely brush-over of a complex issue.

    • Very Much The Truth

      Once women’s Lib took over, it certainly did mess them up VERY BAD.

  • Don’t be selfish be a humanist

    I agree with politicalcynic 100%.

    Feminism is sexist by definition, otherwise if you truly believed in equality for everybody, you’d be a humanist.

    I won’t bother listing example since he did such a good job, but this author is one of those brain dead intellectuals who believes he’s smarter than everyone else, but has never seriously given the situation proper thought or research.

    It’s even more sad because he’s male, he has no excuse for being brainwashed.

  • Billy Plante

    Do all feminists hate men? No. Do the vast majority of feminists not say a word when vocal feminist groups do things to harm men? No they don’t, they remain silent, and it is that silence which shows how much they actually care about men. Men are disposable. Feminist groups fight tooth and nail at any semblance of “power” men might have, including stopping the production of a male birth control pill, attempting to change the narative on child custody and now saying it’s violence against women to take her children away from her, not saying a word when women get 40% less of a sentence for the exact same crime under the exact same circumstances as a man, still holding onto the myths that women earn less than men, that all men are potential rapists, that women bear no responsibility in their sexuality, that it’s violence against women and not violence against people.

    By their words, I would believe feminists do not hate men. By their actions, I cannot see it any other way.

    • Like I’m telling YOU my name

      Feminists haven’t blocked production of male birth control AT ALL! The problem with birth control is how the cost-benefit analysis is worked out for the person taking it. Women, by taking birth control, avoid the medical condition of pregnancy, whereas men avoid NO medical condition whatsoever. Hence, the FOUR-FOLD INCREASE IN STROKE RISK that women face by taking the Pill is deemed acceptable to avoid pregnancy, but isn’t deemed acceptable for a man because HE CANNOT BE PREGNANT.

      So, the side effects and risks that are acceptable for male birth control are basically ZERO because male birth control doesn’t benefit MEN’S health in any way, only women’s health.

      It isn’t feminists deciding this, it’s the FDA.

      What you might be interested in (and hey, it’s the FEMINIST who cares enough to know about it when YOU don’t) is a treatment called Vasalgel, which is currently going through FDA approval. Look it up online, I think it’s the solution that you’ve been looking for.

    • Like I’m telling YOU my name

      PS: I would LOVE it if men had safe, reliable birth control already. My sister spent a large chunk of February in hospital having blood clots CAUSED BY HER BIRTH CONTROL removed from her lungs and is still on warfarin now. It would be great if she didn’t have to put herself at risk like that just so that she and her husband can have kids when they are both ready for them.

      I think you’ll find that most feminists agree me, and the few who don’t are the ones who advocate lesbianism for all women. NO feminist is trying to stop men from being to prevent pregnancy.

  • VeryMuchRight

    well the Lesbian population is certainly out of control these days.

  • Lester Guymon

    Its called egalitarianism. True equality is not about “someone else will address issues for that other group”, its about equal focus on all issues that keep people from being equal. BTW I don’t have any privileges, I have roadblock after roadblock. As someone who isn’t eligible for financial aid but lives in a crappy apartment and bleeds for 65 dollars a week, which is my only source of income, you can take your privilege and shove it up your ass.

  • Vitaly Klitschko

    Feminism has created a situation where any man is a fool to emotionally invest in a woman. By undermining traditional marriage – and in particular the idea that a couple should work through the inevitable problems – feminists are directly attacking male reproductive rights.

    There are many strands in this assault. The most obvious is easy divorce which completely favors the woman, whom will almost always get custody. This is connected with the propaganda of domestic violence against women; ignoring widespread violence perpetrated by women against men.

    Secondly, there is the sexual liberation of women, which culminated in the over the counter contraceptive pill. The corollary of this liberation was the social acceptance of promiscuity, abortion on demand, open marriages and adultery. Kinsey made a fetish of the female orgasm and the notion that any woman’s ultimate fulfillment is as a lesbian. In other words, narcissism.

    Finally, the ritual of dating and the whole concept of “romance” has served to emasculate men. Any man who is a so-called gentleman in the dating game is by definition in the pocket of a woman and subject to her right to “fulfillment”. Dating is essentially a financial contract, in which the man pays for sexual access. This is demeaning for both sexes, but is the natural result of feminism.

    • Like I’m telling YOU my name

      My aunt was battered by her first husband. You calling her a liar?

      I’m GLAD that men don’t want to marry any more. Marriage has always been servitude for women, finally the tables are turning and men don’t like it, well GOOD! Anything that makes it more acceptable for women not to marry is a good thing. A wedding ring is called “the world’s smallest handcuffs” for a reason.

      • Koko

        You’re blanketing your personal experience over everyone’s. my grandparents weren’t in servitude for one another they worked together as a team.

        • Like I’m telling YOU my name

          That’s lovely for them. However, marriage isn’t nice for everyone and so people should be able to: 1) not marry; 2) divorce.

          • Koko

            But people are able to not marry and divorce, just because its not for everyone doesn’t mean its a form of oppression.

      • Daniel

        the most recent studies have shown women more inclined to domestic violence towards men. That doesn’t come close to saying it doesn’t happen to women.

        “Anything that makes it more acceptable for women not to marry is a good thing” … you sound quite bitter and fanatical.

        You do seem to be honest though, apart from your opening line.

  • anthropogenic

    I support the resolution of women’s issues, but I’m not a feminist. Feminist culture doesn’t get to claim me just because I think a girl shouldn’t have to ask her parents to get her a plan b because she’s 15. It’s obvious she’s not her family’s property, and plan b’s safer to consume then many other over the counter drugs already available, and obviously the family might be the reason she needs the plan b in the first place. I support women having access to abortions, not only because research shows making them illegal only makes them more dangerous, but also because there is an inherent inequality with acting like the government should be able to override what an adult and their doctor decide that only applies to women. etc

    You might say I feel this way because of the advances feminism has made, but I had little to no contact with feminist culture until I went to collage. (I lived in the deep south and in fact most of my ‘bible belt christian upbringing’ disagrees with my views) You might say I grew up in the house that feminism made, and their might be some truth to that, but feminist culture tends to forget and white wash it’s mistakes. For instance if you talk about women’s suffrage movement, you instantly think of the people who got votes for women, not ‘no lips that touch alcohol will touch mine.’ Votes for women are great, but prohibition of alcohol was a disaster, and that same style of paternalism still persists in much of feminism. I can’t understand how anyone thought that since some men that drink beat their wives, you should take away alcohol from those women as well…

    Simularly it’s not hard to find sex negative feminism. Since some people film themselves raping children, of course we should ban all pornography, even the stuff made by women. Which is in essence the same sort of paternalism that lead to the prohibition of alcohol. The same is true with consensual BDSM.

    Transphobic, homophobic, racist and sexist feminism isn’t hard to find… and the further back you go the more ubiquitous it is. In fact some of the most bigoted things I’ve heard about my transgendered wife have been from feminists, and feminist culture has a long history of being quite antagonizing to queer culture in general. Seriously some of the things that have come out of feminist culture about my wife would fit right in at a Nuremberg rally. I have a right to disassociate myself with a social group that not only has a long continuing history of antagonizing and diminishing people like my wife, but commonly does the same for me as well. You might say it’s just some feminists, but even you assume every self described feminist is some warrior for gender equality, and I find plenty of liberal and moderate feminists making excuses for radical feminists because of these sorts of generous positive assumptions.

    I find as a social group feminism goes about solving problems in the wrong way. I can support the dissolution of sexist laws, I can stand up for a woman when a much larger guy is obviously making her uncomfortable or is abusing her in some way, I can support making the lives of prostitutes better with socialized healthcare and legalizing consensual sex work…. I can support women and not support feminist culture.

    For instance, one narrative I’ve heard over and over again right now is this idea that more and more women agree with feminist stances on ‘feminist issues’ but are too naive or stupid to understand that makes them feminists. The problem is the idea that they are ‘feminist issues’, instead of issues that are unique to women. There is a large difference there, because when a 12 year old mentally handicapped girl gets raped by her uncle and wants an abortion but the state she’s in tries to make sure she can’t get one…. it doesn’t matter if she’s a feminist or not. Feminists can try to find solutions, but feminism as a cultural group doesn’t ‘own’ those issues.

    I could go on for a long time about attitudes and paradigms like this found in feminist culture. Even the idea that gender equality is the common thread that all self described feminists seek after is a bit of a fallacy considering things like the SCUM manifesto and other radical feminists. Even if they pay lip service to ideas like gender equality, their ideas about how to get there are commonly very sexist, homophobic, transphobic etc.

    Thus feminism doesn’t get to own me just because I think women are my equals, and should be treated as such under the law. Feminism is a culture, and I simply do not want to be a part of that culture and all the baggage that comes with. Frankly I don’t have to be a feminist to support women and the resolution of issues women specifically face.

    • Nick

      How can you claim to support women’s issues without believing in equality for women?

      • Koko

        Same way you can support animal issues and not necessary believe in equality for animals.

  • Kate

    It’s a shame that more of the people who commented on this piece didn’t seem to absorb or even stop to consider the information presented in the article… Feminists as a general rule have no desire to dominate society and discard men, do not believe that all men are rapists and, all in all, they don’t believe any of the frankly ludicrous claims some of the anti-feminist commenters have made about them. Those who subscribe to radical feminism may have a more aggressive stance against the patriarchal structure of our society, and perhaps this aggression has shaped the way the (non-radical) feminist movement is popularly viewed and portrayed. But just because feminists do things like speak up about the very real effects of male privilege and want to be treated with the same basic respect which men afford each other in no way means that feminists are evil man-haters. To put it simply, feminism is grounded in the radical idea that women are people, too.

    • Daniel

      “To put it simply, feminism is grounded in the radical idea that women are people, too.” Well there is a huge part of the problem, feminism presumes women are not thought of s people.

      Clearly if that is something that would lead to anti male feeling. Right?

      What information was presented, it seemed all opinion?

      Pretending there isn’t a problem with feminism, like with most things, means the problem will not be sorted. To pretend the negative attitudes to feminism are down to irrational people focussing on a minority helps people ignore the fact that feminism is a bigoted movement.

      It is also very determinist and disempowering to women.

  • Dominic Blais

    feminism starts out bad women where never oppressed even when they supposedly could not vote ( the candidates put out flyers to women telling them to tell their husbands to vote for so and so ( women always had more power than they will admit) women where kept safe and they where oppressed by their children NOT MEN. feminism punishes children by demonizing men and their roles as father and provider ( but men are still chosen on the provider part not the quality’s to be a good father, that women choose more for when they stayed at home the beta males the mra’s, not the pua rapists and mangina’s who love this sex objectification of having a new 18 year old every night

    • Like I’m telling YOU my name

      I’ve never heard so much crap in all my life.

      Until 1991, a British could legally rape his wife. THAT’S oppression.

      I don’t want to depend on a man. I like my job and having my own earned money.

      I also do NOT want children EVER. The idea of a horrid little parasite growing inside me and then having to be pushed out through my cervix and cared for for 18 years makes me feel sick. Google “tokophobia” and “child-free”: I’m not alone in feeling this way.

      • Daniel

        could a woman legally rape her husband?

        Is men being forced to die intrenches oppression?

  • Archy

    “Many feminists would like to see pro-feminist men tackle men’s issues in a way that doesn’t blame women and feminism for all their problems (like MRA’s)”
    The hypocrisy of griping about feminism being unfairly generalized against whilst making an unfair generalization of the MRA’s blaming women is pretty stupid don’t you think? If you ever bother to read MRA’s it isn’t women they blame, nor is it really ALL feminism but the extremist and heavily gynocentric feminism to the point it causes harm to men (such as duluth model, early VAWA, primary aggressor laws, campaigning against men being recognized as rape victims in India, etc). Most MRA’s and feminists actually have very similar goals, with different ideology in mind but both generally want equality between the genders and both have a lot of members who REALLY hate the extremists of the other group. But it doesn’t help when both sides generalize the other so much.

  • dr.blais

    because feminism compares all women to the top 1% of men ( the rich ) and forgets most men have it harder in general, you never hear em compare them selves to the school janitor, or construction worker and how hard he has it trying to feed his wife and kids

  • FACTS

    Excellent article, sir! A tiny minority of extremists should never define a huge, global, historic and BEAUTIFUL movement… As you touched on, it’s certainly not too hard to understand why feminism has always been mischaracterized and vilified… Thanks and I hope this reaches a lot of people….

  • FACTS

    It’s quite interesting and important to consider why so many men are so threatened by feminism in general, and the extreme misandry of a few feminists in particular… Feminism has helped make the world a better place for everyone…

  • Ning Shan

    The 5 reasons certainly make interesting reading.
    Before addressing it or wider issues directly I want to make my own stance and context in which im writing, clear. Im a 27 year old heterosexual British man. I strongly believe in genuine women’s rights issues and believe that as men we must acknowledge that around the world there are serious issues threatening women. Sexual violence against women is used as a weapon of war in countries like the DRC. It is clearly an endemic problem in India. In countries like Pakistan and Afghanistan, girls are threatened, often violently, simply for wanting education. Low conviction rates in rape cases fail women victims, most of whom are not false accusers but actual victims of a horrendous crime. Less seriously, but still important, it is unfair if a woman does the same job as a man but is paid less. I find physical violence against women to be abhorrent and I regard men who use women as punchbags are words I cannoty use here. The idea of forcefully striking a woman, especially on the face, is alien to me. Not that it happens- it does, but I find it hard to comprehend how any man can do it. No woman ‘wants’ to be raped because of what she wears.
    I believe in all these things. But I do not call myself a feminist. Why not? Whilst I take on board many of the points made in this piece, there are other points I cannot agree with.
    I am not someone who believes ‘all’ feminists hate men. That is an unfair generalisation of a wide ideological spectrum with different contexts around the world and something of a lazy simplification. But I do find myself far more sympathetic to feminist movements in countries like Afghanistan as opposed to contempory western feminism- which in its present context does not convince me to be egalitarian in nature.
    So why am I uncomfortable with western feminism? Moderate feminists like the writer of these 5 points may acknowledge the extremists but I have seen little to no condemnation of them. And they are not a minority of fringe figures. These misandrists continue to be published, given air time and hailed as great figures within the feminist movement by many other feminists. Moderate feminists have too often failed to challenge their misandry other than to acknowledge it.
    Secondly feminism does vilify or at the very least stir up a negative perception of masculinity and indeed sexuality. To most female feminists, unless a man is gay or prepared to agree 100% with their views and declare himself a ‘proud male feminist’ then he is an ignorant sexist dinosaur (and worse). I know because I have personally been branded this way by feminist groups on Facebook. The recent debate in the UK over so-called ‘objectivity’ indicates feminism equates human sexual attraction with immorality. Ironically this is not dis-similar to how certain religious fundamentalists treat women! When heterosexual men look at a sexy girl- for example a round card girl in a boxing match, they are not ‘treating her like a piece of meat’ – that is what it is; heterosexual men admiring female sexuality. My question is, so long as all parties concerned are in consent, where is the problem? Feminists are very patronising to women in these sort of roles- saying they are ‘objectified’ without asking THEIR opinion? There are much worse things than strutting around a boxing ring for a few seconds and being paid well to do it. Look at the pictures of round card girls ringside and you will mostly see giggling girls- not scared exploited victims. Men are not asking feminists to show their body in a sexually alluring manner so what right do they have to dictate to other women or dictate to men about how to think?
    I also regard western male feminists as patronising to their fellow men. In one debate a male feminist told me that all women go through life ‘terrified’ of facing the patriarchal world- he was talking in the western context… this is the sort of attitude that can be seen.
    Whilst individual feninists may care about men’s rights issues, feminism as a movement clearly does not. Its not so much that I expect feminism to campaign for men. Rather I would like to see feminists stop actively campaigning against men. This is indisputable. Women’s Studies have much more to do with stirring up a negative image of men rather than promoting a genuine egalitarian programme.
    Ultimately I feel there are too many question marks over feminism for me to personally align with it. I support feminist movements in parts of the world where women really are treated in a horrendous manner. But in most developed democracies, feminism to me represents division and if not outright misandry, then obvious double standards (the never ending rhetoric about the plight of women in prison despite the fact most inmates are men, demands for equal opportunity- without equal responsibility….) and counterproductive activities- ‘Slutwalk’ for example was intended to make the valid point that a way a woman dresses is no invitation for rape. But it ended up resembling an statement that ‘looking like a slut is ok in itself’
    I also resent the way feminists hijack divisive and complex issues like abortion, whilst utterly ignoring the fact that some of the strongest critics of abortion are women and half of all aborted foetuses are female… my own stance on this issue is that I support abortion in early stages only. But I resent the way feminists have hijacked it- often in a very crude and infantile way.
    Feminists also fail to acknowledge the tendency for female immorality in positions of power. The obsessive focus on getting women into power ignores the fact that some women leaders are just as corrupt, cruel and ruthless as some male leaders. The objective should be equal opportunity- to most feminists its the logic that gender alone is a determining factor.
    The writer makes some fair points and I give him credit for acknowledging why feminism has the reputation it has, but if you label yourself with an ideological tag ie ‘feminist’ then you have to be prepared for scrutiny- as every ideology should be.
    As a man who believes in womens rights as I believe in human rights, nothing in the article has convinced me to call myself a feminist. I still believe there is too much institutional anti-male sentiments encouraging ‘male guilt’ within the movement for it to be credible in its western context and as a man I resent feminists dictating how I should think and telling me im a pervert if I am attracted to a sexy girl. Feminism is in large part responsible for its own often controversial image.

  • Charpentier

    Sam, if you truly believe in gender equality like you claim, please make yourself known to the men’s right movement because I am failing at convincing them that people like you (feminist who believe in equality) actually exist. If we all want equality, maybe we could all work together.

    • Koko

      The best start is a name change.

  • PolishKnightUSA

    These “feminists aren’t man haters and here’s why” articles, whether written by men or by women always start out with the following theme: “Not ALL feminists are like that” and then after the fluff, close up with “White guys are privileged so they ALL share the collective burden while ALL women should get victim goodies.” It’s a complex rationalization typical of a woman or a man who spends too much time among them. Rational, logical creatures (aka men) see right through them.
    Nice try though.

  • Kyle

    Killerman spends a few paragraphs explaining that Misandry and Feminism are quite different (#1); then later quips about how men’s rights activists blame women for all their problems in a biast blanket statement (#4). While I am the first to admit that many MRA members can be quite misogynistic, this is plain hypocrisy. How can anyone justify a statement like that when they have just finished talking about how feminism is not man hating even if the majority of self identifying “feminists” hate men?

    Men
    engage in sexism because they’ve been taught to behave/think that way.
    Women internalize it for the same reason. – See more at:
    http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/12/reasons-people-believe-feminism-hates-men/#sthash.CzENZ09W.dpuf
    Men
    engage in sexism because they’ve been taught to behave/think that way.
    Women internalize it for the same reason. – See more at:
    http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/12/reasons-people-believe-feminism-hates-men/#sthash.CzENZ09W.dpuf
    Men
    engage in sexism because they’ve been taught to behave/think that way.
    Women internalize it for the same reason. – See more at:
    http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/12/reasons-people-believe-feminism-hates-men/#sthash.CzENZ09W.dpuf

  • QueQuoi

    Hi Sam. Great article!
    I’m sure you’ve heard of Lewis’ Law – “The comments on any article about feminism justify feminism”, especially since this comment section is turning into the perfect example.
    Keep up the good work.

    • Vinka Hodgeon

      I agree with you: Sam’s article should be widely promoted. I am doing my bit. Dr Jackson’s video “Silence is Violence” on youtube is also great. Lots of people have a problem with the term: feminism, because women’s for full human rights become visible. Some men don’t want to concede an inch, hence the kicking and screaming against feminists. During the long liberation struggle against colonialism in Algeria, Algerian women were encouraged to join the struggle with the promise that after the revolution, their full human rights would be honoured.
      Guess what: men lied! After the revolution, nothing changed for them. Ditto with marxists: let’s smash capitalism first, then we shall deal with women’s rights. We have Universal

      • QueQuoi

        This Marxist Intersectional Feminist would like to thank you.

  • Mark Neil
  • Blue

    Great article…however, many men do not want to lose their privilege and so they’ll fight for it until they die. No matter how much logic you try to present, they will ignore it. This is proof of how deeply misogynistic our society is and changes will most definitely not happen overnight, if ever (I’m a cheerful soul, what can I say).

    • Koko

      Can you define privilege? Because from were I’m looking both genders are privileged.

  • SticksStones

    I’d love it if the word feminism was never used again and was replaced by egalitarianism – equal rights for all, irrespective of gender, sexuality, creed, race, culture – sadly it is a bit of mouthful to say. In my experience the feminists who shout loudest hate men or at least express their feminism by being insulting towards men, being male I can’t side with them, although I’d be a natural ally for their fight in addressing gender inequality.

  • politicalcynic

    Recent documented acts of feminism:

    1. Defining rape so that male rape victims have not been the victim of a crime in India;
    2. Defining sexual harassment to be “women only” and supporting laws that state that ONLY women can be sexually harassed;
    3. Denying a man services for facial reconstructive surgery following being a victim of domestic violence solely because he is male;
    4. Throwing boys as young as 11 out of DV shelters when their mothers seek refuge there-and forcing their mothers to make “other arrangements” for the boys (thereby traumatizing the boys further) solely because they are male.
    5. Protesting meetings in both Toronto and Edmonton that sought to address the fact that western schools are failing male studients miserably by every reputable study, and seeking to block efforts to address problems like the documented instances of female teachers consistently grading male students more harshly.
    6. Seeking the assistance of the DOJ to block attempts to recruit male students in a university in which the student body is 2/3 FEMALE as “discrimination against women”
    7. Supporting a recent television program in which a man was forced to perform oral actions on a woman after she bashed his head into a car window as being “empowering”
    8. Telling those of us who are male rape victims that we are “part of the patriarchy” and therefore “part of rape culture”-the WORST form of victim blaming around-and stating that they have a “right” to behave this way.
    9. Jailing men for domestic abouse in Spain based on allegations of “telepathic abuse” and allegations that a man “passed gas” during an argument with his wife.

    Feminism hates men. Their ACTIONS say so. All the WORDS in the world do NOT change that. Feminists SAY they’re “all about equality” and “don’t hate men”, but watch what they DO, not what they SAY. They control nearly 2/3 of all consumer wealth in the US, they receive TWICE the amount of healtcare men in the US do, girls are FAR less likely to drop out of school, men are 4 TIMES more likely to kill themselves, men represent EIGHTY percent of all victims of violence (but all they talk about is violence against women), men represent eighty percent of the homeless in the US, hundreds of thousands of men are raped every year-in well documented instances of violence-with NO resources to help them….and the ONLY feminist response is either silence, or telling men to “shut up” about it. Where are the feminists fighting to protect male rape victims? Where are the feminists demanding services for the 800K MALE victims of DV in the US last year? Where are the feminists demanding that since women can serve in combat they should be required to register for the draft? Where are the feminists demanding better workplace safety rules to protect men (who are 4 times more likely to be killed on the job)? Where are the feminists demanding help for men who are homeless, and not just “women and children”? Where are they? Where are they? Where are they?

    Feminism is hate. The actions tell the story-and all the words in the world won’t change that.

  • Alia Stephen

    To those people slandering feminism based on some misandrist feminist groups/individuals. In addition to missing the point of the article, does it occur to you that you are doing to feminists exactly what you are accusing feminists of doing to men?

    - focusing on the negative comments or actions of specific individuals and groups and applying them to the larger group
    - finding systematic flaws and rather than challenging those flaws, using them to demonize every group and individual who could potentially benefit from those systematic flaws
    - silencing those whom you disagree with by discrediting them, rather than listening and having a practical conversation which could lead towards understanding and equity

  • Ray

    While i agree, and this would be right, but i think your down playing the first point a lot, the sheer number of irrational feminist far out number the rational one, testament to this is this very article, why would there be a need to write this article if there wasn’t already an issue, i can’t help but be reminded of a time when i had a debate with a feminist, you see for her, equal pay was a small issue in her mind compared to allowing women to take a more dominant role running the world in both political and religious aspects, as in her words “men can’t do it right, their always fighting”.

    You see the problem as you mentioned is that women, and particularly feminist groups, don’t want to acknowledge the inequality that men suffer from in society, like:

    1) Divorce and custody proceedings are heavily in favor of women. So much so that a good man can lose all contact with his children while still being forced to pay for them.
    2) Male infidelity is much more talked about and lambasted than female infidelity in media and television, even though recent statistics have proven more married women cheat than married men. – In some cases feminists groups will even try to pin female infidelity as the mans fault. This is a case in point that feminists groups far from acknowledging male inequality, try to justify it.
    3) Men not being able to look after other peoples children in fear of being labeled a pedophile – this stops men from pursuing career’s in childcare ect…

    The list goes on, like you mentioned, male competitive behavior is made to look stupid while female emotions are made to seem far more important than they are. What has happened, is many of the groups running around calling themselves feminists are in fact misandrists. the message has been screwed up.

    There are women out there who genuinely believe that they as females can do everything men can do, and do it better? this is stupid, it would be stupid for me to make such a claim as well, men can not do everything women can do, sure they can do somethings, but men are not women, and women are not men, we are different and have different roles in society.

    Stupid women who believe they dont need a man to raise that little child are stupid and should not be trusted with children. This single issue is the biggest problem that feminism has given the world, the notion that a woman doesn’t need a man to show her child how to be a man, or how to deal with other men. The women not accepting the mans opinion on child birth, as both parties will be effected, but the women using her stance to force the man into something he may not agree with, these issues are the single biggest problem that feminists have gifted the world, the notion that for a women to be equal they have to degrade a mans rights.

    You would have been right, but its too late for that.

  • Elliander Eldridge

    I don’t doubt that some feminists are positive, but keep in mind that the voice of feminism behind many government policies are a reflection on feminism as a whole. If feminism is an ideal, it’s ideal is only what is presented to the general public. In this context feminism is a negative movement that actually hurts women just as much as men.

    For example, in many countries the push for higher wages has come at odds with gender roles. Women in Japan prefer to date men who make more money, but at the same time want equal pay. This has resulted in a cultural change where more and more women date men who are much older than themselves, and has decreased the rate of marriage nationwide. It got so bad that the men are disconnecting more and communities whose economies are based on Marriage have started performing ceremonies between men and virtual girlfriends. Yes, it’s true.

    In America Feminists are the ones behind frequent changes to age of consent laws. Originally most countries listed 12 as the age of sexual consent, but in each generation it goes up a little bit more. Currently the feminists are trying to have the laws changed to increase it from 18 to 21 and are focusing first on the porn industry, but only on women. They say that it’s because younger women make more mistakes, which is true, but when will it stop? At what age do feminists think their fellow women are capable of making choices about their own lives and living with the consequences of those choices?

    In Australia their movements for regulating the porn industry resulted in a law banning women from entering the porn industry without a minimum C cup size, which has significantly benefited the breast augmentation industry. Their reasons? Men shouldn’t find small chested women attractive apparently.

    More seriously the feminists push for anti-rape laws that intentionally exclude men. Instead, men are supposed to experience “forced penetration” because, according to feminists at least, men are incapable of being emotionally or physically harmed by a woman. That term is on all the government pamphlets about rape. How would it not be rape for a woman to force herself on a man at gunpoint or with drugs? In one of the most graphic cases I read about, a woman drugged a men and put a Q-Tip inside his penis to force an erection which caused damage that he never recovered from. But no, that’s not rape. He cried alone after, but no, it couldn’t be because he was suffering. In less severe cases the men who are committed to their girlfriends (or boyfriends) refuse even attractive women and when they are forced it isn’t “rape” because the feminists say that men with erections automatically “want it”, but they don’t apply the same logic to women. If a woman is sexually aroused she still has the right to say no, so why not men? What’s so difficult about “no” that feminists just can’t seem to understand? This isn’t just some other issue that feminists aren’t looking at, this is an issue that feminists are CREATING by INTENTION. How can anyone not see animosity in feminism when that is going on?

    (Also, I can’t find anything verifying your claim that men have a lower
    GPA than women. That’s not even part of the men’s rights issue.)

    Here’s a fact: In all species the gender roles are very real, but are not fixed. When one gender begins to change the way it acts the other one does in turn. I have never heard of a single species that does not obey this simple rule. Even in human history, the gender roles have switched multiple times.

    To give you an example of this in action, take the color pink. Pink was at one point a masculine color. All baby boys had pink. This was because it was considered a masculine color. The girls had blue because it was “soft”. The feminists decided to take the color pink to show themselves as “strong”, but all that ended up happening was what we see today: Pink is now a girls color, blue is now a boys color.

    Right now we are going through a switch where women are taking on a more masculine role and men a more feminine role. This is happening in part because the feminist movement is not at all concerned with true equality.

    Anyone, in conclusion, Feminism is negative because the voice of feminism is negative. If people who identify themselves as feminists want it to be different they have to either make it different or use a different word to define themselves. That’s like a Nazi trying to say they don’t hate such and so race. I am sure many members of the Nazi party didn’t, but those members didn’t speak for the Nazi party.

  • Fynn

    This is so politically correct, I want to hug it and sex it and hump it and stuff…but then I look at tumblr.

  • Jianju

    You cliam, “Some feminists may be misandrists,” but I would argue this is impossible: If one hates men, as many “feminists” do, then it follows that they do NOT believe in equality. Rather, they believe in the superiority of women.

    • sdrake

      Yep.

  • Ivan

    So wait. That’s your main argument for anyone opposing feminism? They are irrational?

    MRAs are pissed at feminists because why again? Oh apparently you didn’t address that part. Irrational right?

    Feminists don’t want to address men’s issues because … (Drumroll!) It will take away attention from women’s issues! This is after stating that feminism is about equality. I won’t mention that casual fallacy of men’s dominance. Set off pouder keg on radfems and transexuals or mention any other indiscrepancies. Also forgive my sarcasm I’m still recovering from belittling tone of the article.

    Look brah, I would love to see MRAs and feminists working together but it isn’t happening and it never will because of core ideological differences. MRM is based on rationality and feminism is based on emotion. Your “trigger warning” is the perfect evidence.

  • mcmwhite

    “The mixed feelings about addressing men’s issues tend to stem from the fact that “men’s issues” tends to be the default in our society.”

    Really? I would like to hear your evidence for that. To me it seems the complete opposite.

    The
    mixed feelings about addressing men’s issues tend to stem from the fact
    that “men’s issues” tends to be the default in our society. – See more
    at:
    http://itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/12/reasons-people-believe-feminism-hates-men/#sthash.Tq7Tq3aW.dpuf

  • Anonymous

    well the Lesbian population is so out of control today, and getting much worse.

  • george

    What about the right to allow men and boys to be who they are without prejudice.

  • Bulder

    Because most Femanatzis are lesbians and lesbians hate men !!! Everybody knows that . Why they hate men ?? Simple . Because they don’t have a dick . That’s why . Of course . Its a dick envy . They have to compete with straight men for a pussy so….its hate and envy .

    • Guest

      You have a vile, nasty male chauvinistic mouth. What woman broke your heart and kicked you out of her bed?

    • Bulder

      Why ?Its the truth . I’m sorry but ….most men know that by the time they are 18 . Women always say that …Ooooo do you hate women ? !! Oooo who brock your hart ?! — ‘ No body ‘ ! I’m a happy guy ! It is so obvious . Don’t have to …..We see the double standards and the hypocrisy every day . They way they cut corners to hire women to be cops or how men are falsely arrested and put in jail over BS Rape charges after a drinking with females or some fat unsecure women in the Military laying about Rape because she is angry that can’t compete with the guys or just out of spite . Why ? Because she can . Because we live in Misandry society ! Google it if you don’t believe me . Lots . 90% of homeless people are all men and women live longer so…..where is the UN ? Where is the United Nation ? Women enjoy sex more than men do too . Multiple orgasms ,right . Our mothers and sister’s and the school are lying to us for decades .So many boys are getting sexually assaulted too . American media is garbage . Very bias . Travesty really !

  • a “merry” willy wonka (bored)

    Good for you. This is the same way I think; all that stuff you talked about (the “shocking ones”) from Universities books and written studies and whatnot. I am glad there’s a white guy on our side because what you said is pretty much 100% accurate and there are always orthodox extremists on either side of the field (men or women) on this issue as well as every other one, and those women may contribute to an inaccurate, bad rep. So thanks man! And I don’t say this a lot, but what you’ve done proves you are smart, mature, and respectable as a being. 5 stars, I’m running out of ways to say good job lol …

  • commandergreen

    Until the feminists can seperate themselves from the anti-men hating supremacists I cant take them seriously. The next world war though I am going to fully support “equal rights” and in the name of equality I think all men should sit this one out and even the next one. No I am going to sit back relax and watch the feminists go fight for there rights, I am then going to push for mens rights

    • Guest Cat

      To you and all the other people in the world who keep lying and saying that feminists hate men. That’s a bold faced lie. What feminists hate is all the crud, venom, and mess given to women by all the many people who condemn feminists, many of whom are acting like robots by joining in on a hate campaign, because they hear others going against it. There are many parrots in this world.
      You all must use your common sense and know that any cause or movement will have extremists. And men’s rights groups can have extreminsts too. But you all have got to stop scolding the feminists unless you scold the men’s groups. Do you think this is justice, or equality. Women are tired of those of you who keep fighting against them for wanting freedom. Women are human too. Men are not gods, not gold, not the only living beings in this world. Men share this world with women. Anti feminsts, I challenge you all to express your concerns in respectful, not demeaning ways. Know what you are talking about when you jump on the anti feminist bandwagons.
      Men please stop condoning and allowing women to fight against each other for you all. Tell your female anti feminsts friends to stop putting other women down for wanting rights. Everything is not about men.
      Now about your basketball team comment: Black basketball teams win games. But you need to recognize that these black basketball teams are owned and coached by rich white men. You see how men and white men are at the top of everything and still complain about feminists. Now tell me again your belief about how unfair it is for black basketball teams to be being black
      Lastly, tell the female internet marriage counselors to stop scolding and blaming wives and women. One or two of those sites have become obsessed with demeaning women. Keep in mind that women just want a piece of the pie. Stop fighting against women having rights like men!!!!!!

  • Webz

    As Neil Degrasse Tyson once put it, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzSMC5rWvos

    I personally don’t identify with the word myself, because when you identify as an “-ist”, especially one that identifies with a particular race or gender, the baggage is the most well-known part of the identity. If I do Identify as a feminist, it is in the sense that our society lacks a feminine personality, or disrespects that which is feminine. But nowhere is the feminine criticized more than when a man displays it. I suppose I could also be a critical-feminist, in the sense I fight for women’s issues, but am highly critical of their narrative of why men behave the way they do.

    So I try to stick to an issue-by-issue basis, and avoid some arbitrary name. I check the statistics. I check the studies. Everything updates, and new enlightening things pop up all the time.

    And I think this is the reason people are so reluctant to identify as a feminist, no matter the meaning. It’s a movement, not a gender stance. Saying “I’m a feminist” does not mean “I believe in equality for men and women”, which is basically everyone. It means “I believe in equality for men and women, on the premise that men as a whole hate and seek to subjugate women.”

    It isn’t “forced” so much as it is just two outdated gender roles. A lot of women these days still want to play the old gender role of being provided for and protected. They SEEK the old gender role. Whereas a woman who understands the WHOLE picture, perhaps a feminist, understands that nobody is required to do that for you if you are considered their equal.

    In other words, your “knight in shining armor”, your “brave warrior”, and your “traditional chivalry and dating ettiquite” will all go down the tube. Don’t expect to see them, unless you want to take steps backwards in women’s liberation.

  • Turtaan

    “No. I am a White man. That wouldn’t serve me well at all.”

    BS and an absolute lie; you’re Jewish, not white. Don’t think us goyim are too stupid to know the difference.

  • Alan Martin

    you arent a man…your a feminized male legitimizing hate… feminism did NOT create ideas of equality…its the ideology that has developed SINCE… dissent to feminist SOCIAL dogma becomes the ‘equivelent’ of being against equality. there arent different “kinds” or “extremes” to feminism, there only different levels of indoctrination… saying you are a ‘good’ kind of feminist is like trying to say your a ‘good kind of nazi”…. why legitimizes the word at all?

    • Guest

      No person is demonizing all men. That is your confusion, not women’s reality. And please stop with the same ole tired worn out statement about men working hard to support women. Women work too. Wives contribute to the housejhold these days too.That was a thing of the past where few women worked. Do not disregard our jobs!! In this modern day, women are out there in the workforce just like men.
      And for those women who stay at home and the man divorces them and leaves them alone, those womenare deserving of compensation for putting up with all the duties she had to do along with taking all his bull_ _ _.
      And you all want women to not try to get equal rights!! What in th bump is a woman to do. No matter how a woman decides to live for her life, some of you will criticze her. It is not fair.

      • sdrake

        So when women divorce men, which is the case in 70% of divorces in the U.S., should men be deserving of compensation for putting up with all the duties he had to do along with taking all her bull___?

        But I’m sure you’re not a hypocrite, right?

  • David Hovgaard

    It is not that women hate men it’s that many of you have contempt for the men in your lives which is not surprising as most entertainment venues depict men as incompetent whiny boobs. The reality of course is quiet different. Men work everyday at jobs they sometimes hate. If they have kids doubly so even if they suspect the kids aren’t theirs. They work sick, with broken toes or broken limbs and they get no respect from the people they do it for. That’s okay because we are men and its our job and we do it because we love our families.

    It would be nice however, if the feminist movement would stop demonizing all men and look at the problem of sexual harassment and sexual assault for what they are crimes committed by an individual and not a gender. It also be nice if we could stop calling men pedophiles for being stupid enough to get involved with an underage girl. Yes he shouldn’t have done it but if it was consensual it wasn’t rape despite what the outdated law says. A woman that chooses to have sex is not a victim.

  • http://andrewatkin.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/the-real-deal-housing-in-new-zealand.html Andrew Atkin

    The vast majority are male-haters. Who are we trying to kid?

    • Guest Cat

      And the vast majorit of men’s rights people are female haters. who you trying to fool??

      • http://andrewatkin.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/the-real-deal-housing-in-new-zealand.html Andrew Atkin

        Fooling no-one, and not trying to. You could be right though…but I’m not associated with men’s rights groups, so I don’t know. I’m talking about feminists – men’s groups have nothing to do with what I said.

  • phillyGreen

    There is nothing grosser than a Male Feminist. It’s like seeing woman with hairy legs. Yuck.

    • Daniel

      it really is pathetic.

      • Very Sad

        It is the Butch Lesbians that are the Ugliest these days.

  • http://wonkytechno.tumblr.com adey jarvis

    If you want Feminism to not infer only one gender and specifically women, then the term itself is the key barrier.

    • Guest Cat

      I don’t see you complaining about the movements that are for fathers’ rights and for men’s rights groups, yet you jump all over those who are for women’s rights. That is why feminists say that those against women women’s rights are women haters.
      Men’s movements have done some damage, so let’s hear you all holler.

  • TheManWithNoPlan

    I’m really sick of this whole argument. The man wasn’t trying to push any kind of “agenda”, he was just explaining what feminism is, and what it isn’t. Let’s make it clear:

    Men don’t need to worry about feminism.

    Why?

    Because it doesn’t concern us – it doesn’t effect us negatively or positively, and if you let it concern you, then that’s your problem.

    Feminism involves sorting out problems that come with being female – problems such as being shouted at in the street, being sexualised by the media. That sort of thing. It’s about promoting femininity and getting rid of all the negative stereotypes surrounding it – hence the word “femin” -ism.

    If, at any point, this starts to negatively effect men, then it becomes misandry.

    On this note, feminism is not the same as “humanism”, but it comes under the umbrella of “humanism”.

    On the other hand – women don’t need to worry about men’s rights movements.

    Why?

    It doesn’t concern them. It doesn’t effect them positively or negatively, and if they let it concern them, then that’s their problem.

    Men’s rights involves sorting out problems that come with being male – problems such as divorce rights and demonisation of male sexuality. It’s about promoting masculinity and getting rid of all the negative stereotypes that come with it – though it could probably use a more catchy name.

    If, at any point, this starts to negatively effect women, then it becomes misogyny.

    On this note, men’s rights is not the same as “humanism”, but it comes under the umbrella of “humanism”.

    Now – this is probably going to spill over at some point. Some male-exclusive problems are caused exclusively or mainly by women; some female-exclusive problems are caused exclusively or mainly by men. So there’s going to have to be compromise. And this is where the bickering starts, and everyone’s efforts start getting dragged through the mud because nobody is willing to compromise.

    it doesn’t matter what “influential” feminists have said – it doesn’t effect the definition of “feminism” as a word. If a feminist happens to hate men, then she’s both a feminist and a misandrist (I think that’s a word?). Just as if a men’s right activist hated women, then he’d be both a MRA and a misogynist.

    If Jesus said “I hate Muslims”, then it doesn’t mean that all Christians hate Muslims.

    If Jesus AND the Pope said “I hate Muslims”, then it STILL doesn’t mean that all Christians hate Muslims.

    If every Christian in the world hated Muslims, it STILL wouldn’t mean that Christianity involved “hating Muslims”.

    Feminism is good. Misandry is bad. Target that instead.

    Got it?

    Feminism good. Misandry bad.

    Now if sensible feminists and sensible men’s rights activists can just leave the shouty, bitter misogynists and misandrists on the sidelines, can we both go hand-in-hand to create a better world for everyone? One free of limitations and stereotypes on BOTH sides?

    Thank you.

    • Daniel

      what article did you read themanwith no plan, it set out to “show” feminism was not anti men. It made no effort to show what it actually is.

    • sdrake

      Wow, you sure have drunk the kool-aid big time.

  • Josette

    When you look at the world of social problems through the lens of one group, and only one group, it is going to create inequality. If I started a movement that only looked at problems that affect caucasians, and looked to solve those problems to their benefit regardless of the cost to others, what would that look like? Feminism, by definition, looks at social problems from the standpoint of women and looks to solve those problems for women, regardless of the cost to others. Nowhere is equality in its true definition, if it were, feminism would only hurt women socially today due to inequalities that have men falling short because of their gender.

  • John789

    Suppose you are a feminist who thinks men oppress women. Would the following article make you jump up and say “What a strong argument… I have now completely changed my mind”.

    5 Reasons Why So Many People Believe Men Want to Oppress Women
    ————————————————————————————————
    #1 Because Some Men Do Oppress
    #2 Because People Have Been Told this for 200+ Years
    #3 Because Most Women Think Men Do Oppress
    #4 Because Some Men Aren’t Willing To Address this
    #5 Because Sensationalism Is a Good Way To Distract From Real Issues

    No it wouldn’t. It doesn’t go far enough.

  • Joe

    “So man-hating isn’t a part of that goal. Its an unfortunate reactionary sentiment bought into by some people (misandrists) who also identify with the feminist movement. ”
    —why would people who hate men identify with the feminist movement if the feminist movement is about gender equality and not the hatred of men? How many racists join ‘race equality’ movements?

    a group with a lot of power (men) tends to do whatever it can to maintain that power
    —funny how you first say that you don’t hate men and then you say that the ‘man group’ has lots of power and is power hungry. And this after going on about how a portion of a group does not equal the whole group.

    It’s happened with every oppressed ethnic group (from the Irish to the Africans) that’s immigrated the country. It happened with oppressed religious groups (from the Catholics to the Muslims). And it continues today with the oppressed gender group.
    —how long have men and women been living together? And in all that time, despite raising the sons to be men, women never managed to claim power but… most other oppressed groups throw off their oppressors in a matter of a century or so? Why? Are women weak, dumb or lazy or are they just not interested in having equality or is your entire idea suspect?

    Why do people believe it if it’s not true?

    Because people are irrational.
    —sorry but there are feminists and anti-feminists. So some people believe in feminism. How can we be sure that those people aren’t the ones being irrational? Is there a method? If so, maybe you should use it. Should I use the method? I did. That’s how I stopped being a feminist. What is the method? Think. Suspect that maybe your own precious belief system is, in fact, flawed and seek those flaws out. I practice this quite a bit now which is probably why I don’t subscribe to any ideology. Unless math and logic are ideologies. And atheism but only inasmuch as I do not subscribe to any belief in a god.

    Sexism is the problem — sexism that a lot of men engage in and a lot of women internalize
    —now prove that this sexism is only against women and that only men are the ones dishing it out. Seems to me that the sexists who are hurting women are, in fact, feminists. Women should be allowed to be firefighters. Great. But then feminism comes along and says that the strength standards FOR WOMEN are too high. So the standards get lowered. Well, when a person sees that women get lower standards and the same pay, what are they to think? That women are often quota fillers and not as good at their jobs as men. Where does that come from? Feminism.

    Men engage in sexism because they’ve been taught to behave/think that way. Women internalize it for the same reason.
    —again, prove your assertions. Where do men learn sexism? Is it in school curriculum or is it just something you assert without any actual evidence beyond anecdotes (plural of which still ain’t “data”).

    Feminism asks both men and women to critically think…
    —not from what I’ve seen. Feminism doesn’t seem big on critical thinking. Patriarchy? Privilege? Rape culture? Prove any of those.

    holds people accountable to sexist thinking and behavior even if they didn’t initially realize it was sexist.
    —yes, feminism is big on telling people that they’re the victims of sexism even if those people didn’t “realize” that there was sexism. Feminists, of course, are the enlightened who can see feminism anywhere and everywhere.

    it’s likely you never thought you were doing anything wrong.
    —and the high priestesses of feminism are there to tell us what is and is not acceptable.

    The mixed feelings about addressing men’s issues tend to stem from the fact that “men’s issues” tends to be the default in our society. We’re a male dominant society.
    —so you say. Again, prove your assertions. Nothing here is ‘obvious’ or ‘a given’. Especially not the very things your entire ideology is based on, such as “We’re a male dominant society”. There are different ways of looking at things.

    Many feminists are concerned that addressing men’s issues (or gender issues as a broad goal) will move the conversation completely away from women’s issues,
    —so you’re excusing feminists for ignoring men’s issues. Well, then I guess they’re not ‘really’ feminists, right? Seems that a lot of so called ‘feminists’, (since feminism is all about equality) aren’t really feminists. Well, since everyone gets to, in a privilege free world, define themselves and the definition is all that’s important, I guess everyone is just perfect. Nazi? That’s fine! You’re all about German patriotism! KKK? That’s fine! You’re all about ‘race realism’ and everybody knows that it’s good to be realistic! (and so on).

    Many feminists would like to see pro-feminist men tackle men’s issues in a way that doesn’t blame women and feminism for all their problems (like MRA’s).
    —I think if you’ll check, you’ll find that most MRA’s are ripping on FEMINISM, not women, for their woes. The two, in case you didn’t’ know, are different. As for these feminists who want ‘pro feminist men’ (AKA ‘feminists’ I would think, unless men aren’t allowed to be feminists) who are so concerned with equality… want men to tackle men’s issues. Why? Why is it not OK for a woman feminist to care about men’s issues or to do something about it?

    Because Sensationalism Is a Good Way To Distract From Real Issues
    —like the way Lego sexism and the latest beauty pageant’s inherent misogyny is more important than acid attacks and the stoning of rape victims?

    It’s pretty messed up that being born a certain way…
    — such as less inclined to do the hard work of mastering a stem field or more likely to take maternity leave or less likely to work long hours and so forth? Yeah. Pretty messed up. You know what else really cheeses me off? The way we have no retarded neurosurgeons.

    be elected into political office… but those restrictions are objectively measurable
    —another thing that is objectively measurable: women have a slight edge in numbers and therefore voting power and are free to run for office and yet… fewer female politicians. Either women don’t want women to be politicians or women aren’t willing to run for office. Why do women have a slight edge in numbers? Probably b/c they live longer, yet another example of that horrible patriarchal oppression of women. Damn the man, making it so that women live longer! So oppressive.

    Blacks are more likely to be imprisoned…’
    Gays can’t be given rights…
    —are you deliberately derailing or do you honestly think that feminism is the sole defender of these group’s rights? Or, for that matter, their defender at all? Is ‘feminism’ now not only concerned with, by definition, ‘gender equality’ but also concerned with ‘all issue equality’? Wow. You feminists have a great definition. Good luck living up to it. Maybe if feminists jumped the collective shit of radfems and man-haters, I’d be more inclined to trust you.

    Women don’t earn as much as men because earning a lower wage for the same work is part of being a woman.
    —so not only do companies choose to pay more for the same quality and amount of work for the sole reason that a worker has a penis but women are incapable of starting and running businesses to fix the situation. Why? Is it b/c they’re lazy or is it b/c they’re stupid or b/c they’re emotionally weak or is it b/c every time a woman tries to start a business, the patriarchy’s evil storm troopers bust in and haul her off to prison? Let’s not forget that women live longer and are a slight majority of the people. And apparently, despite bending over backwards to save nickels on pencils and toilet paper and stuff, businesses think it’s a great idea to pay @ 30% more for ‘penised labor’.

    Also, let’s ask the spell checker.

    Misandry. (apparently that’s misspelled b/c it doesn’t even exist as a word)
    Misogyny. (nope. Went off without a hitch. Apparently that IS a word.)
    So when even spell checker doesn’t give a damn about men’s rights (by, you know, admitting that the word ‘misandry’ is even a word), how is it that we live in an anti-woman/ pro-man society?

  • Mike Buchanan

    I don’t think I’ve ever raid anything on feminism so profoundly ill-informed. For some decades (indeed, since before you were born, judging by your photo) the only form of feminism of any significance has been gender feminism, a female supremacy movement based upon (and driven by) misandry.
    Have a nice day.
    Mike Buchanan
    Author of ‘Feminism: the ugly truth’ (2012)
    JUSTICE FOR MEN & BOYS
    (and the women who love them)
    http://j4mb.org.uk

  • Jt

    It’s simple really, it’s because the vast majority of people who call themselves feminists, despite your insistence to the contrary, are indeed female supremacists and not equal rights activists.

    To those people who cannot handle the minor pressures associated with being a female in modern society, I would like to see them TRY to properly cope with and handle the ones expected of men.

    There are some things that are unfair but that is not what most people who label themselves “feminists” limit themselves to. They simply believe that women should be dominant. If there’s two males on a poster, kill one off and replace it with a female. It’s just like racism. Yes, there was a lot of it, but it certainly never came from me, and if you call ME a racist, no matter what color you are now you’ll be black and blue afterward.

  • Roger Wilco

    Sam, sorry to tell you. But feminism is born of discrimination before we even give it meaning. Break down the word, and you will see this truth. Would you say the same for maleism?

  • Stefan van Westing

    Funny how regardless of what pussy-whipped semi-faggs like you say feminists in real life never follow up on what you’ve said right here.

    Has anyone ever heard a feminist oppose genital mutilation of boys i.e. circumcision ???
    NO … in fact quite the opposite, feminist-in-chief Oprah Winfrey went around touring promoting a skin creme that is MADE FROM THE FORESKINS OF BABY BOYS, (that’s right, that’s our clitoris’ equivalent being robbed from us and used to make skin cream for women, nonetheless they’ll still say this is a society where men benefit at the expense of women) and continued to tour about how fabulous it is that boys are tortured that way, and advocated for more such torture.

    Has even one feminist ever raised questions about the way that the marriage contract is skewed against men, has one feminist ever told other women that falsely accusing men of rape or other heinous crimes is wrong ?

    Has even one feminist ever said that paternity fraud is wrong, or that it’s wrong to have a man’s child against his wishes just to be able to extract money from him through the courts ?.

    Funny how regardless of these articles written by the biggest queer and masochist on the planet feminists in reality never …. NEVER exhibit truly equal standpoints, but quite the opposite.

    He’s trying to defend a female supremacist ideology, the theologians of which have written extensively about how they believe men to be damaged human beings, or incomplete humans, due to our Y-chromosome, (they believe the Y chromosome is incomplete because the letter “Y” looks a lot like an “X” with a leg missing, not realizing that the actual Y-chromosome doesn’t look like a “Y” at all) who have openly declared that men are ought to be eradicated all-together and that we are at best, domestic cattle.

    Nice try pussy-boy … but i’m not buying it…

  • Zap

    Iffeminism is “for men too”, please explain Schroedinger ‘s rapist and “male privilege” to us, mister “i am a man who is a feminist” ?
    Hilarity will ensue as you sqeuirm and struggle to put together your conflicting ideas.

  • Anonymous

    There is a conversation going on, but things are getting worse in America, it’s reflected in our entertainment and media. Is anyone even doing anything about gender equality? Do you feel comfortable with the idea of having a female president, honestly? If not, then Patriarchy is in full swing and it is the human way to create suffering. Sorry, but we might just be the sickest species on the planet, animals live in harmony and only take what they need, but we have money and hoarder billionaires that make being evil look like the right way to be. Who needs ten billion dollars, and why have humans created a world of suffering? A sick sick species obsessed with control and being slapped in the face over and over while we try to be superior to animals, when in fact they are our greatest teachers of harmony. Lost in a society above nature, anonymous student.

    • sdrake

      What female candidate has ever promised to fight the cruel injustices committed by women who alienate children from their fathers (Kim Basinger being a classic example)? None. Which female candidate promised to go after Katie Couric for slapping a male employee? Not one. Why is Crystal Gail Mangum a free woman? Under oath, she falsely accused three lacrosse athletes at Duke University of rape, which ruined their lives.

      Can anyone name even one female candidate who has promised to prosecute women who falsely accuse men of rape? Nope. Name one female elected official who has ever actually worked toward equal rights among genders. If such a female politician existed we’d see her working to get anti-male legislation such as VAWA, Affirmative Action and Rape Shield repealed. This is yet to happen.

      There isn’t a single female candidate or elected official who has ever represented or even shown concern for men as a group. Hence, if female candidates want more male votes they’re going to have to abandon their practice of SEXISM.

  • LoveForAll

    Your number 5 is false. There are studies that actually prove exactly the opposite and they use actual Data. You should look into that. Being white and male and NOT in the upper crust of society is far more restrictive than any “minority” because of the laws that are now in place. You are also not required as a female to care for you children, nor submit to the draft, nor a myriad of other reasons. The western world is a gynocentric society. Every facet of the world have been completely rebuilt to directly benefit women. And at the same time men are taught to shut up and deal with it.
    The gender pay gap is also a major fallacy, there are studies done by both gov’t and private sector proving that claim to be 100% false. Most studies actually prove that women are ahead by as much as 8%.

    • LoveForAll

      I attempted to edit for mistakes in my post, to no avail. The error I was speaking of was concerning the gender gap in pay. It’s 100% bollox.

  • Daniel

    wow, nice propaganda. Feminism is not about equality, at it’s simplest it is a female rights advocacy movement/ideology.

    To say a movement can have this simplistic anti patriarchy central theme, with this not presenting men as the oppressor without associated negative feeling towards men is absurd/

    Look at feminist debates and propaganda, it is clearly anti male, disempowering to woman and not from a minority. Any small amount of research shows this.

    THis ”

    #5 Because Sensationalism Is a Good Way To Distract From Real Issues” is to ironic to even address. Feminists use this method of sensationalising constantly.

    Feminism is an intolerant movement and promotes intolerance. The most pointless and frustrating debate, if you can even call it that, is with a feminist. Utter hypocrisy and blind double standards.

    This article goes with the line of least resistance and doesn’t challenge anything, it just goes with the flow. It give platitudes and truisms, with a bit of alteration they are a generic defence for almost any prejudiced movement.

    It would really be great if this was written about with an agenda. Not, “let’s write and article showing feminism isn’t what some people think it is” rather, “let’s examine feminism and find out if these impressions are true”.

    Read this article and the supporting comments; http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/telling-women-to-be-careful-gets-men-off-the-hook-1.1536337

  • Daniel

    wow, nice propaganda. Feminism is not about equality, at it’s simplest it is a female rights advocacy movement/ideology.

    To say a movement can have this simplistic anti patriarchy central theme, with this not presenting men as the oppressor without associated negative feeling towards men is absurd/

    Look at feminist debates and propaganda, it is clearly anti male, disempowering to woman and not from a minority. Any small amount of research shows this.

    THis ”

    #5 Because Sensationalism Is a Good Way To Distract From Real Issues” is to ironic to even address. Feminists use this method of sensationalising constantly.

    Feminism is an intolerant movement and promotes intolerance. The most pointless and frustrating debate, if you can even call it that, is with a feminist. Utter hypocrisy and blind double standards.

    This article goes with the line of least resistance and doesn’t challenge anything, it just goes with the flow. It give platitudes and truisms, with a bit of alteration they are a generic defence for almost any prejudiced movement.

    It would really be great if this was written about with an agenda. Not, “let’s write and article showing feminism isn’t what some people think it is” rather, “let’s examine feminism and find out if these impressions are true”.

    Recent misandry in irish time.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/telling-women-to-be-careful-gets-men-off-the-hook-1.1536337

  • Trigger Warning

    http://www.safehorizon.org/index/what-we-do-2/domestic-violence–abuse-53/domestic-violence-the-facts-195.html

    I don’t hate men, but i do not blame any other womyn who does hate men after experiencing sexual assault or domestic violence or street harrassment or oppression or supported a friend through any of the situations we experience on a regular basis. Feminist, GNC, Trans*, womyn, ally, anyone who hates men due to the kinds of traumas ze/she/he has experienced or witnessed should not be looked down upon for hatred. It would be awesome if every one could treat everyone with respect but after years of getting groped most times you shake hands with a man, it can be hard to trust men. Even though i don’t hate men, i am still very careful when communicating with them because the majority of men i communicate with touch my body without my permission. YES the MAJORITY. We are shaking hands, no need to touch my lower back, hips, shoulders, arms, etc. So i avoid standing too close until i get a feel of the situation and, ultimately, i understand why this constant tip-toeing around men can make some folks feel hatred.

    • daniel

      so we should hate half the population from our own subjective experience? If i followed your view… people would be dead. moron

  • Minami Sumi

    When popular feminist Germaine Greer says all men should be killed after they father children because that is what men are for, and she is being serious, then what are men supposed to think?

  • genzeleam

    We believe feminists hate men because they constantly go around bashing men and crying about being women. I don’t have to read your article to know you’re an insufferable idiot.

  • TheSystemIsBroken

    ‘Many feminists would like to see pro-feminist men tackle men’s issues in a
    way that doesn’t blame women and feminism for all their problems (like
    MRA’s)’

    I find it interesting that you warn people against making broad, over-generalizations about feminists, then go right ahead and make a broad, over-generalization for MRA’s.

  • grouchy

    This was so close to being one of the first non-self loathing, non-self elevating feminist pieces written by a man, which are usually written simply to show how much more “evolved” the author is over his peers. Oh, but then, … MRAs are ALL simply sexists and blame women for thier problems … in the middle of an impassioned article about how feminists are NOT all sexists who blame all men for their problems, it’s just a mere percetion by foolish men. eh? So one cannot simply advocate for very real men’s issues without being labeled an awful person? Guess not. The article supports the very “myth” it seeks to dispell

    • Guest Cat

      Grouchy,
      Incorrect.This article was quite clear in its portrayal of feminsts.
      The author took an approach to this problem in a non threatening, non blaming, way.More than I can say about those of you who are so against anyone who tries to explain why women have had to organize against the many years of oppression by those who do not want women to have any rights. It is so sad.

  • grouchy

    I wish this article was true. or maybe that it was STILL true. As it is, it comes far too late to be accurate anymore. I spent years trying to bring a more feminist viewpoint to male friends, to myself and even to women I knew, who too oftehn failed to stand up for themselves.
    But I won’t do it anymore.
    I would love to point out, as a former male feminist, that all over tumblr – all over the internet, really – are feminist bloggers (FEMINIST bloggers) with handles and themes that contain very overt misandry. Names like Misandry Molly, I drink male tears, etc. They do this even as they deny misandy’s existence, even as the underplay the very real issues in our society that affect men. I don’t know what corner of the internet you live on, but this is not a fringe movement, it is the feminist movement itself. This is the future of feminism. Not a national dialogue, not an all-gender summit. Simply hatred. hatred and trolling. And it has bolstered misogyny; it has fostered the “misrepresentation” you speak of.
    Not to mention … It’s equally as unwelcoming to you, Mr. Killermann as it is to me, or to men who have NEVER indentified as feminist. Phrases like “rape cuture” and “slut shaming” are meant to idenitfy every CIS hetero male as both predator and opressor. Your support and mine is as unwelcome to feminists as misogyny. I am proud of my accomplishemnts and my values as a man; so I won’t betray my own gender for the sake of impressing those who already hold it against me; seeing me, and any man as being no better than the worst of all men.

  • Ricardo

    I will challenge this view for a moment. The fact is: there is no feminism that doesnt believe in the historic paradigm of patriarchy. The patriarchy is a structural order that serves to benefit men at expense of woman. Since, according to this, all men are members of patriarchy, and not human being with their flaws and experiences, all feminisms hates men! period. If you are a men and you get into a fight with your girlfriend, feminism will not listen to you as a human being, but as a member of political class that opressed woman troughout history. So, feminism creates a inquisition to persecute men just because they are men, and they have this histical debt. Its very close to marxism. And creates hate speech. Since there is no feminism that doesnt believe in the patriarchy, all feminists is sexist against men.

  • Guest

    Perhaps a relabeling is in order

  • Bob Gillis

    Perhaps a relabeling is in order? If its about equality then using the name feminism which singles out one gender makes it unequal. It should be called humanism, to make all humans equal. The name Feminism creates a feeling of double standard. The Pendulum need not swing to extremes. However real equality will never happen until we see it upon the dissolution of marriage. When women are held as responsible for themselves and are not
    allowed to destroy the rest of a mans life because she wants out but doesn’t want to give up his part of the marital benefits. Perhaps if marriage law were the same as business law, things would be more equal. Cant have it both ways. A woman is either equal or she isn’t .
    If she is then she is responsible for her own livelihood after divorce. You cant pick and choose. Equality has to be a level playing ground across the board.

    • Guest Cat

      Bob, men were born above women. You all were first. You men do not want to take responsibility for anything. You all just want women to shut up and give you all sex and food.
      You are irrational, confused. You all were given the headship, not women. Men have always controlled everything from the start. Men have all the power and the physical strength. Men have always exploited women for every cause down to sexual purposes.
      Women never had any equality. When women fought for the right to vote, who the he_ _ fought agiainst us? MEN!! And now you and other women haters, have the nerve to say why not equality for both men and women? Men already have equality. What equality do men not have?? Heck, women have always had a hard time with all the crap and opppression form men. We have always struggled and now men have started complaining about some mythical mess about us having all these bullcrap rights. The only thing women dominate at this present 2013, is the right to pose naked for men’s lustful desires.
      You need to regroup before you come here slinging the unfair statment about what women have.

      • sdrake

        You’ve been watching too much TV.

    • sdrake

      Well-said!

  • CUNTS

    When are “normal” feminists going to do something about equal rights in the divorce courts?

    HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
    A) NEVER

    It’s only equality when it benefits women and only woman!

    FUCK YOU

    • Guest

      Wash your mouth. If you want women to stay home for all those years, then the divorce courts should give her something. What do you crazy men lovers want? First you all say that a woman should stay home while her husband works and makes his own money. Then when they go to court you want her to get nothing. How stupid is that. That’s why we have feminsts, because men and men lovers have gone crazy.
      I am not a feminsts, but I say….more power to feminists.

  • Ash

    I think feminism is great but I don’t think it should just be about women. I think it should also address how everyone is affected by inequality.

    • Guest Cat

      Then let the men and others who are affected by inequality get their own group. Why ride on our coat tails, since you are so against us?

      • Sad But So True

        boy if only the women of today would have a brain, then how very dangerous they would be.

    • Guest

      Men already have rights honey!!

  • Tom

    “Feminists don’t hate men” is a very convenient statement which allows them PLAUSIBLE DENIABILITY. But CLEARLY all you need to do is watch the BEHAVIOR OF THE VAST MAJORITY of western women….. and yes, they fucking do. You can see this on daytime national television when they all gather around and laugh and cheer at the thought of a woman cutting her husbands penis off – when all he wanted to do was divorce her stop living with that hateful cow.

    “SOCIAL JUSTICE”? PLease. You’re talking about the gender that VOTES to make/keep paternity fraud LEGAL in all 50 states. You’re talking about the gender that VOTES to be treated like unaccountable children. You’re talking avout the gender that murders their own young to the tune of 50 million abortions in America alone – since 1973 – and ONE BILLION WORLDWIDE.

    Yes it’s “murder” because if you kill a pregnant woman you are guilty of murder on TWO counts. But women don’t think it’s “murder” when they do it. And then they actually have the NERVE to pretend to be devastated by one or two school shootings.

    “Feminists don’t hate men”?

    That’s exactly what they WANT you to believe. And it would appear you and your pink shirt have been perfectly brainwashed. (Raised by a single mother perhaps? ) Yet the misandry in the media which they ALL – YES ALL – laugh at and consider amusing entertainment which depicts the belittling , scolding, eye rolling , and punishment for buying his wife “the wrong gift” is all the PROOD anyone needs that women even hate their own husbands.

    “Feminists don’t hate men”? OK.

    BUT WOMEN AS A COLLECTIVE SURE DO.

    Yet they expect MEN to clean their garbage away, rescue them from burning buildings, they SHAME men as “cowards” when men refuse to drown on sinking ships (and die in wars) for female comfort and convenience…. so what ELSE would you call that???

    LOVE????

    In writing this article… just WHO are you trying to convince???

    MEN???

    OR YOURSELF.

    • Guest Cat

      Why are you filled with such anger and hate. My goodness, you sound like the opposite of a feminist.

  • http://andrewatkin.blogspot.co.nz/2013/03/the-real-deal-housing-in-new-zealand.html Andrew Atkin

    The only male feminists I have seen are the one’s who think they might score some pussy out of it…you know…”Hey Girls – I’m one of the nice guys xxx!!!”. (And they don’t score from it, which makes them particularly funny and shows that they don’t “get” woman).

    • Guest

      Rubbish

  • No one cares about my name

    I was raised to be a feminist. I used to love and admire women.
    Now, as a grown up, I hate women.
    Not because I was taught to by men. But because I was taught to by women from experience.
    Feminism is propaganda. Yes, if you are a feminist, you DO think all men are evil rapists.
    I’m sorry, but wake up. THAT’S EXACTLY what they think of the male gender.
    But wonderful apologetic piece for the sexists. Maybe soon they will be able to tax any male who speaks to a women by the second. This would be a great ad for that.
    Congrats. Maybe next you’ll do one on how deer love to be shot for the good of the world, or the merits of euthanasia.

    • Guest Cat

      You sound so crude. You seem to be filled with hatred for basically the only group who will go to bat for women and women’s rights.
      I am not a feminist, but you have to admit that
      1. Men do objectify to women.
      2. Men do want women to be submissive
      3. Men did fight against women having the right to vote.
      4. Congress is dominated by men.
      5. Men arrogantly, do not want women in traditionally male spaces, but have the audacity to burst through the doors into female spaces or traditionally female spaces: (ie labor and delivery nurse, chef, female clothes designer, female hair stylist) and so on.
      6. Men do have those strong sexual urges, with sex, sex, sex, sex, on their minds all the time, while threatening to cheat on their spouse if she doesn’t satisfy his strong urges.
      7. Men do rape women, everyday in fact, and women are not safe in a out of the way or remote space with one, let alone several men. Let a woman be alone and have a few drinks in an area with two or more men. I guarantee that at least two men in that group will suggest to the others that they should get it.
      Stop getting mad at the truth. You really do not have a sufficient grounds for anger.
      Feminists have told the truth about the vile that flows from the male gender, and they can’t take the truth. Heck, it is not even worth it for a female to get into a relatonship with a male. The female almost always suffers and has more to lose. Run females, run, run as fast as you can.

      • Col_Conran

        Well said & agree totally !!

      • Guest

        the good thing is there are many great intelligent men out there & I believe they are the majority of men in our society.
        The sad thing is, any feminist article no matter how balanced will be followed with the usual insecure misogynist crap in the comment section.

        These men aren’t the norm these days, thank goodness !!

  • Elizabeth Hayes

    First thing’s first, feminism and LGBT rights are not the same thing, feminism and women are not the same thing, feminism and black civil rights are not the same thing. Feminism is not the only group that cares about and fights for women. Obvious right? Well whenever anyone in our little corner of tumblr says they’re not feminists we get the same reel of accusations thrown our way by feminists and by men who feel “unworthy” of the title due to their gender because they get so much abuse from those they’re trying to fight for. We all get the “you’re just a whitecisstraightmale” No, no, no and no. Though people often say they don’t believe in discriminating against those groups they do it anyway. “Teach men not to rape” what of the female rapists (not as rare as you think)? What about the fact that only a tiny fraction of men are rapists and already know rape is a crime, they just don’t care. Or the fact that women often don’t realise that what they are doing is rape, because feminists told her erection=consent and even if he’s unconscious and you’re having your way with him men can’t be raped because they said so. “White males need not apply” no matter how good his qualifications because even if he’s on the streets, missing limbs and treated like scum by everyone, he’s still more “privileged” than the well dressed not “white males” walking by.
    Feminism was founded on lies and misconceptions, the very foundations are corrupt. Right from the very beginning. Hardly any men had the vote while the suffragettes were handing white feathers to any man not in uniform, even under-age boys, to shame them into enlisting, sending children off to war to “do their duty to women”. So oppressed those upper class white women who started it all and the only reason they didn’t work was because they were financially supported. Not only did they not want the vote for any other class of women but they completely failed to notice that their own serving staff were mostly female, that a lot of books written by women had been published, there were famous female physicists from the 1700s, mathematicians from 350AD (look up Hypatia), judges from the 1800s, master blacksmiths from the 1400s. And when you go to the lower classes, the women were right down there with the men.
    There is this cycle of denial that takes place when it comes to this. First they claim women were not “allowed” to work so reference to the people above, Margaret Thatcher (who was anti-feminist) and so on. They either try to claim that they were covered up by men to hid the fact that women achieved anything, ~patriarchy~ trying to elevate men etc or dismiss them altogether. Despite the fact that the only people saying women can’t work in certain areas because of what people might are feminists.
    I had one feminist say to me that default mother custody is ~patriarchy~, when in fact early feminists brought about default mother custody in the form of the tender years doctrine. She then proceeded to tell me that the fact that those in charge accepted it was also ~patriarchy~. It really is the unfalsifiable god of the gaps. Anything that benefits men *must* be at the expense of women

    • Guest

      very much doubt you are female, another male trying to pretend to be female. How do I come to this conclusion, all your points are from the male view point & aren’t balanced at all.

      • Elizabeth Hayes

        Do you have any idea how hypocritical and insulting it is to constantly
        have people from a movement all about women and accepting women’s
        choices to completely deny and erase those choices when they don’t
        conform to their narrow, bigoted specifications?
        Someone disagrees
        and they must be male because obviously women are a hivemind, too stupid
        to think for ourselves so we need feminism to do it for us. Or is it
        because it’s just so alien that a female actually gives a toss about
        people other than herself or judges people based on something other than
        genitalia. Because it would be rather sexist to think that.
        So what
        do you want, a birth certificate? My boobs? Other (please specify)? Why is it feminists never
        actually provide evidence or argument, just insults and provisos.
        Define male point of view, this post is just an ignorant and one-sided propaganda piece. Rather than actually address problems, figure out why/if they are there and offer potential solutions they just scapegoat instead. Nothing changes and they have the perfect patsy because it’s socially unacceptable to defend them and it’s one group where hate speech is encouraged, so people have a free ass to vent their possibly even unrelated grievances against an easy target.
        There was a university that had an annual fundraiser for cystic fibrosis, when it was discovered that only affected white people and primarily men, they cancelled funding. To include them in equality is to discriminate against everyone else, apparently. It doesn’t quite make sense to people that caring about them as well is not the same as instead. While they all try to make everyone focus entirely on women to exclusion of all other groups and that’s just fine.
        http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2008/11/25/carleton-cancels-shinerama-says-disease-only-affects-%E2%80%9Cwhite-people%E2%80%9D-2/
        If you want sources for anything else, let me know and I’ll provide them. From a few hundred studies on gender symmetry in domestic abuse to hours of news coverage on legal biases in cases where the accused was female (2) as well some rather terrifying looks into the education systemto the point where 3-9 year old boys are punished for “sexual harassment” or even “aggravated sexual battery” for hugging or kissing a girl on the cheek at her request (3).
        1. http://www.csulb.edu/~mfiebert/assault.htm
        2. youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoSZTIKN5yhLBVLNWi-a_t85RYTTpusgG
        3. youtube.com/watch?v=F75b7R6Nc1k
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECpogjhgLnI
        Do you have any idea how hypocritical and insulting it is to constantly have people from a movement all about women and accepting women’s choices to completely deny and erase those choices when they don’t conform to their narrow, bigoted specifications?
        Someone disagrees and they must be male because obviously women are a hivemind, too stupid to think for ourselves so we need feminism to do it for us. Or is it because it’s just so alien that a female actually gives a toss about people other than herself or judges people based on something other than genitalia. Because it would be rather sexist to think that.
        So what do you want, a birth certificate? My boobs? Why is it feminists never actually provide evidence or argument, just insults and provisos.
        Here’s my blog anyway:

        • Guest

          wow repeat yourself or what !!, now I’m completely convinced of your gender. Talk about cherry picking !! I still believe you don’t provide a balanced view.

          • sdrake

            Shut up, Conrad. And quit voting yourself up. Who’s Jo Conrad anyway? Your wife? Or is she your mommy? In your case, one in the same. You’re not fooling anyone.

          • Guest

            What are you on about, are you on drugs ?

          • Elizabeth Hayes

            Don’t know how that happened, probably when I logged in to comment it sometimes plays up, bloody annoying. Apologies.
            (The spacing went a bit haywire as well, took out the repeat, ta for pointing it out)
            Where is the balance in doing the written equivalent of “lalala not listening”. I’d love to be proven wrong, merely pointing out that men are not the raping privileged scum you lot think they are is biased and lacks balance? How about applying the same traits you paint on men to women as well since it would be equally true.
            By “convinced of my gender” do you mean that because I disagree with you I’ve suddenly undergone a sex change? I’d love to see your evidence (my bookface is public, take a look. I do get mistaken for being male which is quite amusing. It’s kind of intentional though, seeing the differences in how people treat you, women crossing the road to avoid you then crossing back again. No one helping you out when you’re jumped in the street. It’s not all rainbows and privilege).
            Really though, it is quite sexist to restrict women into one narrow school of thought. Though claiming dissenters to be no longer female is hardly new.

            Or is it that wanting equality to include men, wanting abuse of them to no longer be a joke or covered up and erased somehow oppresses women? Feminists often justify battering men by calling it “pre-emptive self defence”, so abusing a man for years is in defence of an event that may never happen at all. They claim that seeking the same resources for men is a bid to make it legal to abuse women, that “feminism” is the only thing making it wrong and that men feel threatened by this. All the while they protest and block access to talks covering men’s issues, pulling fire alarms a and beating dozens of poles outside the room so hard not a word can be heard. Then that jezebel article proudly celebrating the 70% of non reciprocal domestic abuse being female on male, who are the ones wanting the right to abuse without consequences? Who are the ones feeling threatened by it being taken seriously?

            Wife beating has never been condoned, men would be publicly beaten, flogged and shamed. As were men who were beaten by their wives.
            Now if you’re going to denounce me, at least provide something more than “I declare you male so you’re wrong by default” because that’s really getting old.
            And for gods sake judge people by their actions not their genitals, we’re more than just walking vaginas and penises you know.

  • richie

    Actually the definition of feminism has been re-defined. some post-modern feminists believe in equality for all genders, humanists believe in equality for ALL HUMANS. But feminism derived from the concept of equality for women (not all women, mostly upper-middle class white women) not people of all sex’s and genders. They advocated equal rights, standards, status in society etc for women, partly because back in the day women lagged way behind men, and some what still do. Feminism brings light to issues,prejudice, inequalities against the female gender, however that doesn’t mean they think men deserve prejudice or unequal treatment or don’t believe in equality for all genders. But no feminism is not about men’s issues, Its about women’s rights & issues etc. Some people might deny this fact because for the first time in a long time in history there’s an institution that focuses its attention on women and their problems, and celebrates the female sex. Now i don’t hate men, and i believe men face sexism and these issues should be debated and fought for but, Feminism isn’t about men, Feminism is not about looking after men’s feelings who feel hurt or angry because for once men’s concerns are actually excluded from something, for once something isn’t about the glorified white heterosexual man so they feel like they have to intrude every argument by shifting the the focus on them instead aka WHAT ABOUT THE MENZ!?!

  • AntiFem

    There are tons of anti-white white males out there. You’re a moron and feminists have done noting but attack me since i was a young man (14).

    I’ve had bigoted feminist teachers telling us that women would make a better world for us and that men where “walking abortions” .

    Just go on youtube and search for “feminism” and see the hate groups against MRGs when they just ask for equality in the divorce courts. Feminism needs to die and anti-feminist groups are growing.

    FUCK SEXISM!!!

    You keep asking for more woman only places in colleges all around Europe when woman a the majority of college goers. FUCK YOU!!!!!

    I hope an anti-white anti-male like you gets castrated!

  • Ps

    Somebody forgot to tell society that it’s male default. The patriarchy really needs to sort itself out! With so many laws, social prejudices, stigmas, preconceptions, expectations and bias against men, I’d hate to see what it will be like if we focus on women as our prerogative! Oh wait we already do. Signed, a trans egalitarian.

  • Loren DiTemps

    This is great, and I think someone else touched on this already. I am a woman, and I’ve never thought of myself as much of a feminist until lately. EVERY DAY, people think it’s okay to joke with me about making a sandwich, about being a housewife, and countless times a day I hear women being “slut shamed”. It’s not okay, and the average man does have control of something, himself. I don’t hate men, I don’t think they’re all bad, but I just don’t think some men even KNOW they are doing something wrong. We know that insulting people who are handicapped is wrong, and people of different races, and people of different religions… But it’s still a good laugh to put down a woman? I don’t think so.

    • Col_Conran

      Very well put, SOME men don’t even notice their everyday speak can be offensive to women.

      e.g If some men want to rubbish anything they’ll give it a female twist
      “throws like a girl” “his a big girl” “what a pussy”"son of a bitch”
      the list goes on & on & gives women the feeling that men just
      hate women & anything feminine.
      If a girl is good at sport “she
      plays like a man”"she’s got balls” not she’s just a good sport woman,
      somehow a complement to men is needed here.
      If a man is a tough boss “his a tough son of a bitch” If a woman is a tough boss “she’s just a bitch”"

      “Slut
      shaming” is a worrying trend (some girls are doing this as well), don’t get that at all & “Rape
      culture” jokes “rape is just surprise sex” it’s all there to put women
      down & lets not take what happens to women as serious.The latest
      “men get raped too” & while this can happen, it’s just trying to
      somehow make what happens to women as trivial.
      The classic deadbeat male comment “go make me a sandwich” actually makes me think these men are mentally retarded !!.

      If
      SOME men would just stop & think before they open their mouths,
      life would be much more comfortable for everyone on this earth.

      • Guest

        Agree, the people who fall for this type of talk are just affected by a society that will “rubbish feminine, praise masculine” young boys learn early how to hurt another boy is to refer to him as a girl (no greater insult ever !!) they then take this into adult life.Young girl don’t seem to do this ??

        This type of “rubbish feminine, praise masculine” can be the basis of some male bonding (I have your back mate, no matter what you do) & can have men sticking up for mates even if they rape & they know their mate is in the wrong.

        You find because of this attitude a woman will be criticized very quickly for certain behavior & a man will not for doing the same thing.

        Also this behavior will have SOME men rubbishing feminism & feminist simple because it is feminine & not masculine.

        A perfect example are the ones who say feminists are lesbian, ugly women. You know straight away these people haven’t got a clue what’s going on in the world or how to fix any problems the world has.

  • Chris Horner

    Of course feminists don’t hate men. They don’t give enough of a shit about men to hate them.

  • kamarasune

    Trying to demonize “feminist” as a hate group is simply a backdoor approach in an ill attempt to silence and control women. Some women do hate men and some don’t. The same can be said about men these days. My gripe is you can’t find a damn article on women’s issues without it being camped by a herd of men unless its talking about sewing or babies. Sorry guys its not all about you…get over it.

    • Daniel

      you clearly don’t read or keep up with modern feminism. Yo actually have not made any clear point… just opinion. “My gripe is you can’t find a damn article on women’s issues without it being camped by a herd of men unless its talking about sewing or babies.” back this up!

  • Evie

    I’m not so sure I should call myself a feminist anymore. To most, it implies that I believe women’s issues are more serious, and more worthy of attention than, men’s issues (or at the least, that they can be addressed separately – I believe they are often two sides of a coin).
    I’m anti-sexism. I can’t get a building permit unless I send my stepfather or husband in to do the talking for me – that’s sexism. However, the fact that my brother was mutilated at birth and I wasn’t is also sexism.

  • wetoolow

    But I thought feminism was “a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women.” How come you keep saying feminism fights for all gender equality? Wouldn’t that just be a humanist?

  • Nix_Nightbird

    All it takes is a trip to Jezebel to see that man-hating feminism is becoming the dominant form in the 2010s. To many modern feminists, it has gone past equality to the idea that everything men like is evil, and liking anything men like makes you a traitor to feminist ideals.

    I was a feminist. I was proud of it. These days, I feel embarrassed by the title because it has become synonymous with misandry. The problem is that– like most other things in America– the Internet has given the once-never-heard-from fringe extremists a voice, and they’re shouting louder and more frequently than those who were formerly the main members of any group, whether it be feminists, political parties, religious organizations, or anything else. The extremists are taking over and they’re making everyone else look bad.

    I cruise to Jezebel every once in a while, and it’s getting to the point where I’m no longer surprised when someone there blames something or other on “the patriarchy” or “rape culture”, and slanders men in general. It’s the default stance there, now. It’s a site which fosters hate, and it’s growing in influence and popularity. That’s worrying.

    Feminism is about choice without blockades. It’s about freedom and equality. It’s not about stomping men underneath the boots of neo-feminists who declare everything feminine “wrong” because being feminine appeals to men. It’s not about putting men in their place. It’s not about vengeance for the past.

    Sadly, there are a lot of women out there who have been hurt and now use feminism as a banner in their crusade against men. It’s misguided, but they exist and they’re quite loud and prolific, and they take attention away from the true feminists; The ones who call for true equality rather than revenge-oppression.

    There’s a difference, you know.

    • Allison Swanson

      Me too.. Things have changed since Feminism of the 70′s. We WON!! Its been accepting. Now there is almost taunting after the victory. I have two boys and they have almost no drive regarding school – somewhere they have been shortchanged and nobody seems to care..

  • VolvoGuy

    “Hundreds of years of oppressive behavior?” My grandfather never oppressed my grandmother, just as my father has never oppressed my mother, who have been married since ’67. For 40 years women have gotten worse. Instead of love, and perhaps a commitment, you just need three drinks with twenty minutes of conversation, before intercourse. In 40 years of “feminism” real men haven’t changed, but women have; leaving too many fatherless children, and a divorce rate that is insane. A problem lies with “feminism.”

    hundreds of years of oppressive behavior
    hundreds of years of oppressive behavior

  • ,Rick

    If you are a Christian, and believe the Bible to be the “Holy Word Of God,” then you must know that Gods inspired word in the New Testament gives us our instructions as to how to conduct ourselves as His children. There are roles designated to the male and the female.
    If you are indeed a Christian and study the scriptures, you know what your role is..If you stray from your role , then you are disobeying God’s instructions and therefore commiting sin . In the Old Testament, God said ” He created man and saw that he was alone, and that it was not good.” God created woman : ” Eve,” for man, And that was good.
    He said that man should provide for his family , He said that a man should love his wife .
    Ikea it or not. God said that the man is the head of the woman, Christ is the head of man and God is the head of Christ. According to God it is not an equal partnership. The man has his role and duties and the wife has a different roll and duties. If man and wife obey Gods holy Word, love each other, respect each other and stick to the roles God laid out for them , their family has a chance of making it. If one partner strays from their role , it is sin
    God’s Holy Word ! Not my opinion If you dispute this, it isV sin,
    His word is of no private interpretation. His Word cannot be added to and nothing taken away. He warned that ” Wolves in sheeps clothing shall tell lies and hypocrisies, deceiving many,, and leading them from the truth. The feminist movement is the work of Lucifer! Is is spread by evil persons via the media, to destroy chistian values. I wont insult your intelligence by over elaborating. Rick

  • Elyn

    Feminism started as a good thing, that goes for equality. Now it mutades to a mostly man hating organisation. The initial idea, neither feminists, nor anti-feminists, ever try to look into anymore.
    I guess we, the people who want gender, or any other equality on that matter, need another name now. Feminism was taken over by vicious cunts, and that’s a fact.
    Lets call ourselves… idk… Equalists?
    the way I see it sexism today goes both ways.

  • Nomo Hakon

    I Dont Fucking Care.

  • Pumpkins

    A passage from a misandrist:
    “(Misandry) is a continuation of feminism and fills in the areas where feminism leaves off or lacks aggression against the oppression we face….Men have a lot of privileges that NO ONE should have, not even oppressed groups. Being able to sexually assault people and not be held accountable or punished, being glorified for taking advantage of others, using power and privilege to hurt and mock those that lack power to defend themselves, being treated like you’re immune to criticism and fault, etc.

    Saying women should have equality potentially implies women should have the right to do all those things too.”

    THAT WASN’T WHAT FEMINISM MEANT!

  • holoh

    Feminists are not a “person who believes people should have equitable places in society regardless of their gender”. That’s a equalist. All feminists are, by definition, sexist. Those that say they are not are either not actually feminists or are hypocrites. If you disagree with that, I am a masculinist, and you have to be perfectly ok with that or you are also, by definition, a hypocrite.

  • Rob

    From my own experiences of “feminists” the majority consider themselves better than men, are often sexist and they appear to cherry pick rights and privileges that they have that men have that they want but don’t want to give men the same or perks they have that men lack such as who pays for dates.

    Statements like “rapists are all men” and “women only hit men in self defense” are huge issues in western societies, i’ve seen countless women hit men shouting how a man cant touch her without being a coward or “woman abuser”, The police don’t take men getting raped by women seriously and many men are coming out about domestic violence where even if they report it the woman fakes tears and the police arrest him instead. The only way a man can get around this now is to video the abuse that she claims never happened :/

    If you want to make people think that feminism isn’t a hate group maybe name it something more… equal its got fem in the name for crying out loud, of course others will consider it a women only group.

    After you have that name such as Equalism, move on to demanding equal rights for everyone, stop the blame game and generalising entire sexes based off the actions of a minority.

    The truth is women can be just as bad if not worse than men are, when a woman calls the police the man is arrested in minutes, but if a man does it hes laughed at by the police who are meant to protect him and other men and women in society who don’t believe men can be abused by the “weaker sex” will make him feel trapped.

    Lets be completely honest here guys, how many women who claim to want equality expect men to pay for dates, always make the first move and treat her like a princess? its the vast majority of young women today, hell ive dated half of them who identified as feminists but demanded I have to pay for everything since im a man and thats what we do.

    Teach PEOPLE to not rape, teach PEOPLE not to be abusive physically or emotionally and teach PEOPLE to treat each other equally and stop using men as an excuse for everything thats wrong in the world.

    I openly admit that the “feminists” I have met have all said a lot of sexist and abusive things to me for my sex and i admit the idea that i haven’t met every feminist but when the majority I have met have all acted in a sexist way you have to think that theres something wrong going on, just look at the defination, no wonder many of us struggle backing it up it openly, its practically a women only club instead of “make everyone equal”

    fem·i·nism [fem-uh-niz-uhm]
    noun

    1.the doctrine advocating social, political, and all other rights of women equal to those of men.

  • OMFG

    “Because Some Feminists Aren’t Willing To Address Men’s Issues (Though Some Are)” I hear this argument regularly, cite these some that are advocating for mens rights. “It’s pretty messed up that being born a certain way means you’re going to be less likely to earn as much money” And be less likely to die on the job. This argument has been debunked a long time ago. “Achieve the same tier of success” eh? There are no laws preventing women from having a job, making money, or owning a business. Hard to believe but there are a lot of women who would rather work 20-30 hr work weeks and have children than work a 60 hour work week (hint hint at the equal pay arguement) “be treated with respect and fairness” Like having their genitals mutilated because of their gender in a western society? Or being laughed at when reporting domestic abuse or rape? “be elected into political office” So we need to get women into politics instead of them acting as their own agent and getting elected (p.s. there’s more voting women then there are men) Sorry you don’t get elected just because you are a male or female. There are already plenty of female politicians who have chosen this career, and shown that other women can shoose it.

    • Allison Swanson

      That is the craziest thing about it. Feminists would never come out for ANY kind of male issue – period.

      • Guest

        Rubbish!!

        • Allison Swanson

          Show me one? Just one? NOW!

  • Rebekah

    Thank you a million times over for this article! I have always considered myself a feminist. However, I stood in solidarity because of where I grew up (small town, catholic, America). I have NEVER hated men, in fact, some of my closest friends are men. When I moved away to go to school, I met a few feminist women. I was incredibly excited to gain, and share knowledge in these new friendships. However, I found myself torn down the middle, mainly because of what my new friends were telling me. Some of them simply HATED men. I understand, and firmly believe that slavery, and many other terrible things of the past (and now) were caused by white-privileged males. However, these new friends of mine seemed to look down on my way of living. For some clarity, I dress very girly. I wear dresses in the summertime, and to special events. I often felt like they all looked down on me for dressing this way, for I dress the way the patriarchy wants me to. I never got a chance to explain that I was raised mostly gender neutral, and I chose to dress the way I do because this is the type of dress I feel most comfortable in. They also seemed to look down on me for having a large group of male friends. What they failed to notice is that my group of friends is incredibly diverse in gender, sexual orientation, age, gender orientation, etc. After spending some time with these new friends of mine, I found myself doing a lot of self reflection. I felt split down the middle in many ways. I constantly felt like I had to choose between being a man hating, pants wearing, angry feminist; or simply being myself; a gentle, kind, feminine woman who believes in equality for EVERYONE. Do I think that women are oppressed, and that there needs to be some major work done in our government and society so that men and women alike are equal. YES. However, I don’t hate all men, I don’t hate anyone. I disagree with, and try to change the opinions of those who support inequality of ANY KIND. Anyways. Thanks again for writing this article. It is SO true, and a much needed read for anyone who felt like I did, or has any questions about feminism.

    • Allison Swanson

      Whenever you get involved with a group that promotes themselves based on race or color, uh.. you are going to attract bigots – and even some that are willing to speak out loud about it.

  • BNHE

    “Many feminists would like to see pro-feminist men tackle men’s issues in a way that doesn’t blame women and feminism for all their problems (like MRA’s).”

    This is an interesting quote. Ironically you claim MRAs blame women and feminism. Meanwhile you’re writing an article trying to disprove that feminism hates men despite feminism blaming men and the patriarchy.

    • Allison Swanson

      Bingo! But you will be shamed for saying it.

      • Guest

        your name isn’t Allison is it ?? I’d say it’s more like Alan ??

  • Elly

    I unfortunately read the comments under this article which always makes me a little sad. I don’t want to be on a side. I sometimes hesitate to be “pro-women” because I don’t want to give the impression that I am “anti-men”. Yes, there are women who will argue against men instead of for women-just like there wear groups during the civil rights movement who were anti-white. Sometimes “black power” seemed too close to “anti white” for the taste of the public. To me it seems similar with “woman power”. Should these anti white sentiments (or at least what the public perceived to be anti-white sentiments) marginalize or define the entire civil rights movement? Of course not! Not every part of a movement is in agreement, look at Malcom X and Martin Luther King! One is more extreme than the other and I personally tend to believe that Martin Luther King’s path of non-violence lead to a more ideal future, but you needed both! In order for a movement to have real strength you need lots and lots of people, and in that huge population there will undoubtedly be different solutions to the always present issue of inequality. Feminism can mean different things to different people. I aline with those who believe in equality between genders. Maybe not everyone can agree with feminism because they define it differently than I do, but I only hope that the one thing we can all agree on is equality. If that is the case, talk to a feminist before you judge them. I do not call myself one to exclude others (especially men) from the cause, I am simply trying to lend my voice and support to an movement that is bigger than myself.

  • Reba

    Nobel Prize winning economist wrote the “more than 100
    million woman are missing”. “China has 107 males for every 100 females
    in it’s overall population (and an even greater disproportions among
    newborns), India has 108 and Pakistan has 111. This has nothing to do
    with biology and indeed the state of Kerala in southwest of India ,
    which has championed female education and equality, has the same excess
    of females that exist in the United States” (HALF THE SKY-I book I
    recommend reading in order to fully understand this issue).
    Why
    cant we understand that this issue is bigger than words. I have rarely
    ever felt oppressed in my life because of my gender, maybe one day I will. Though I don’t currently feel oppressed by my society I WILL
    FIGHT FOR WOMEN WHO ARE. There is no doubt in my mind that millions of
    women worldwide are oppressed simply because of their gender. The
    statistics above demonstrate the women who died because of this bias.
    Are there men who are oppressed as well? OF COURSE. But the real issue
    we are spending more time defining feminism than actually fighting
    against sick and blatant gender discrimination.
    THE REAL ISSUE IS THAT WE ARE SPENDING MORE TIME DEFINING FEMINISM THAN ACTUALLY FIGHTING AGAINST SICK AND BLATANT GENDER DISCRIMINATION.

  • Daniel

    Hey Sam, thanks for clearing something up for me. I was having an argument a day or two ago with someone about how, I felt, that “feminism” carries too much baggage because it’s too inseparable from this weird, man-bashing stuff that isn’t essential to its message at all. Now that I know that it’s called misandrist, I feel better about considering myself a feminist.

    I just didn’t want to affiliate with such a counter-intuitive group of people as the misandrist feminists.

  • BowTie Fratty

    I first encountered feminists in college. There was a table sat up that always had 4 or 5 of the most hideous looking girls, yelling feminist sayings, in front of the cafeteria.

    When I would walk by, they just gave me the evil eye or played on their phones. If I was with a girl, they would shout horrible things at her about being greek and how her sorority was part of misogyny or something.

    The thing is I get it. Feminists and many counter culture radicals at college are really just kids who have no peer group, poor social skills, and bond over shared ideas. What is concerning however is that colleges have given these radical groups a free pass to shame worthwhile all-American type students that make up the majority.

    Imagine if my fraternity set up a table and yelled at all of the nerds or non-greeks that walked by. Sure it makes a good 1980′s movie like Revenge of the Nerds, but the reality is that no one would go for it.

    Why? Because in this country we all have the right to free speech, but more importantly we have the right to free association. There is no reason that my fraternity should set up and shame non-greeks, just as feminists should not set up and shame greek girls.

    I find it really odd that most colleges have chosen to pick the rights of a few unwashed radicals, as opposed to siding with the normal student. These feminists are not on any intra-mural teams, they do not do anything for homecoming or for their community, they do not make high GPA (I have never seen a single one on the Deans List or Presidents List dinners.

    In all these radical feminists are not team players, and quite frankly are strange looking and give the University a bad reputation. I could only imagine a college bound kid and his parents, strolling through the quad, and being accosted by radical feminists.

    This has to stop.

  • Jonathan K

    Another vacant post about feminist principles and the perception of those principles. You reduce men (as a collective despite being male yourself) to a group who is implementing a plan to retain power. You reduce feminism to moaning mostly about wage gaps, overshadowing the scary issue that inequality is hardwired into society (presumably because it’s a scary thought to a feminist with no real agenda). Your arguments are like that of a 2 year old tbh. I mean okay, so how are you using the power you were granted from birth (whether you want it or not) to implement equality in society? It says you tour and give talks in your bio but giving talks like this won’t achieve anything other than alienating people. Your point about people in power choosing a distracting narrative is an interesting one but it’s stained in paranoia and makes the reader think you’re blaming them.

    Also your self righteous pat on the back for being a white male who is not a sexist prick is quite insulting.

    • Allison Swanson

      The wage gap of 77 cents on every dollar is a fallacy – adjusted for job and hours worked it gets down to 5-8 cents different.. A lot of women still work part time and in jobs that just dont pay as well as other jobs. (I dont think all jobs should pay the same btw.) So i dont think the inequality is hard wired. Its just false math.

      • Guest

        you need to do why more research on this topic, it’s not about all jobs paying the same, it’s about when people do the same job, equal pay is paid !! Saying it is a fallacy means you haven’t done your research !

      • sdrake

        You are correct and the U.S. Dept. of Labor, which commissioned the Consad Research Group in Pittsburgh to study the matter, came to the exact same conclusion. Feminist propaganda is full of lies.

  • Uncontainable Spirit

    ATTENTION ALL MEN (who are not feminists): Let it go. You simply cannot win. Your voice is not going to be heard. You will be wrong here. Just understand this from the beginning. My suggestion to you is this: Go out and create something. Go forth and do something productive. Build something new. Be greater today than you were yesterday. Succeed. Conquer. Excel. Dominate. Exercise your will. WIN! Do something… anything other than arguing this point any further. Trust me, you’ll be better for it. Your brother, Uncontainable Spirit.

    • Allison Swanson

      I disagree – feminists have achieved a lot – not they are left with kinda being whining.. You need to let it go – victory has been achieved! Now lets be pragmatic with the successes – and hmm.. maybe we should take a look at how our boys are doing so poorly in school…

      • Uncontainable Spirit

        Ma’am, I’ve already let it go. There are millions of men who have decided to go their own way. I’m merely assisting the rest of my brethren who believe that there is merit in debating this topic. Enjoy your ‘victory’.

        • Allison Swanson

          I know – and its sad that this is happening – look at japan – they dont want to date or be around each other – Sweden too. I disagree – debating the topic is important, rather then checking out – but you are logical – why play a “rigged game” – me, I want my boys to be valued cherished and have a happy and healty relationship. So I fight. If they “drop out” it will be sad, but i cant say i blame them – or you..

          • Uncontainable Spirit

            Allison Swanson, I’ve read your positions here. Even though you say that you identify as a feminist… you’re actually not a feminist. You’re a woman who is exhibiting common sense. Men have definitely decided to go Galt. Blame and shame simply don’t work anymore. Telling men to “Man Up” is not effective. Men are checking out of society and it’s because we are making rational decisions about changing incentives.

            I’m sorry that otherwise good women like you will have to suffer for the actions of your sisters of previous years however this process is necessary before balance can be restored. Until our society can realize that masculinity is a human trait that is a force for good in the world we will be where we are if not worse. Thank you Allison Swanson for being a beautiful example of what’s right.

          • Allison Swanson

            Hmmm.. I dont suffer so much – i have a great career and two boys. Meet a 40 year old woman with no kids and is working 60 hours a week to make a few extra dollars. There you will find misery and anger.

          • Guest

            Nice speech there BUT
            ” masculinity is a human trait that is a force for good in the world”
            I am afraid the world will not agree with this assessment as, all the countries that struggle in the world have too much “masculinity” & as a result have very little progress.
            So the world leaders know this & they also know that all countries that have progress, less poverty & have better economies, are countries with feminism.
            So these countries will not be reverting back to “masculinity overload” ever.
            Ever wondered why Afghanistan has no progress “masculinity overload”
            now do you want to go & live there?? or are you happier in a country that has feminism ???
            Because you don’t have to stay in the country if you believe feminism is the cause of all your problems. You have a choice of quite a few countries that have “masculinity overload” but the world hasn’t seen these countries achieving much of the so called good you talk about.

          • Allison Swanson

            I thought you were something you are not… Good luck with feminiztion of your son and the victorian attitudes… Gross woman for sure.

          • Allison Swanson

            I hope you dont talk to your son with such a bigoted attitude – if you do, consider letting his father taking care of him – i wonder what you would say to an African American – your true colors came out here dear.

          • Guest

            Hardly, my son learned about Afghanistan at school & he has also been taught the world needs a balance, not all male & not all female in control for a country to flourish. A good balance is needed.

            Now Afghanistan was used as an example of too much male control & how that country can’t move forward. I gave the example to the post above as he said “that masculinity is a human trait that is a force for good in the world” & clearly this isn’t always the case.

            BUT if you believe how that country runs & how it treats it’s females is fine, than you aren’t the person I thought you were & if that is what you are telling your sons is Ok!! then I pity them !!

        • Guest

          Check out the “demise of guys” & you’ll see what’s happening & it has nothing to do with feminism.

          • Uncontainable Spirit

            I’ve read the book, I’ve seen the TED talk. To put it nicely — provocative, but not revealing.
            When girls were doing poorly in school the cry was “FIX THE SCHOOLS!”
            Now that boys are doing poorly in school the cry is “FIX THE BOYS!”
            lol… That’s ok. I’ll take the Red Pill thank you.

          • Guest

            Fix what is the cause of boys failing YES 100% AGREE

            Girls will continue to move ahead of boys until the problem is fixed.
            Most girls have never been doing poorly at school,even a generation ago girls still on average scored higher than boys.

            So schools have never needed to be fixed for them.
            The biggest difference between girls & boys learning is CONCENTRATION LEVELS. If a child can’t concentrate at school they’ll never learn.

          • Allison Swanson

            Perhaps the schools should “break things up” and allow more recess and activity time for the boys to let off steam?

          • Guest

            Agree, all schools need to get boys back outside playing sport. I don’t know where you live but in Australia outside sport is a must for all girls & boys.

            Boys are replacing outdoor sport on weekends with indoor activities & it has to stop. Sport is the best way for boys to clear their mind.

          • Allison Swanson

            I live in Oregon, and due to budget cuts, recess or “free play” is all but gone – the days are shorter, students go in around 9:30 am.. Teachers salaries are down, while the firemen (EMT responders here not many fires) are up and up.. Looking at my tax bill – the percent going to school is almost on par to the fire department. Again, i think we need to look at equality, but not promotion – we women needed promotion, but now we need to consider all our children, not just the girls.

          • Guest

            Sorry, only just checked back here.
            Yes budget cuts are tough & worst is when they cut education funding as these children are our future.
            Why increase fireman’s salaries?? what do they do all day if there aren’t many fires??
            Anyway, I only have one son 15 & I’ve been reading heaps on the problems boys face & all points back to the extra time spent on internet games & early exposure to porn.
            There is heaps of information on this on the net & a lot of young men are being diagnosed with ED(erectile dysfunction) in their teens & early 20′s. Something that was unheard of 20yrs ago. The porn of today is way over the top to what my husband was ever exposed to as a teen.
            I’ve had the biggest talk to my son about this, as it can be one of the reasons teens & young men are committing suicide. They’re having troubles forming relationships with girls & worst more & more can’t function in a normal sexual relationship.
            All I can say is since I stopped my son playing his PS 3 every afternoon (he wouldn’t admit he looked at porn…lol) his concentration has improved.
            As I said in an earlier post I have a daughter as well & she never had any issue with concentration ever !! but again isn’t interested in video games or porn. It is defiantly harder to raise a boy I’ve found, so having two…..good luck :-)

          • Allison Swanson

            Apparently you arent completely correct –

            http://www.williamdraves.com/works/boys.htm

          • Guest

            AND, William Draves talks about boys being good with computers YES they are, so good in fact their computer is the reason boys waste so much time inside with games & porn instead of study to get ahead.
            AND at my sons school every child is given a LAPTOP in 9th grade to help with education, they don’t even have to carry books anymore, all work is done on computers…SO..why are the girls still ahead even with boys having a computer.
            Computers were introduced 5yrs ago to help boys with concentration at school, the thinking was boys would keep interested if all their work was on computers BUT it’s still not helping.
            More male teachers are needed & get rid of activities that muddle a boys brain & make it hard for him to take in the information he needs to excel at school.
            I’ve banned my sons PS 3 during school terms & have put filters on all our computers so he can’t assess porn & surprise surprise his concentration has improved & he’s keen to learn.
            I have a daughter as well & she was never interested in any video games & definitely had no interest in porn, she never had any problem ever with concentration.
            Everyone needs to look at the reason why boys have trouble at school & the inability to concentrate is the main problem !!

          • Allison Swanson

            Hmm. You suggest that more men should be in the schools to “fix” things? Even with my personal frustration, i dont think that would be the course of action. Perhaps we (USA) should have free education (scholarships) for men that do want to go into teaching? You may be onto something.. Perhaps you might be right.

          • Guest

            In some areas I find the USA is behind in thinking, I’m from Australia, they’re always trying new things to engage boys as it is a universal problem.

            It all comes back to a boys concentration level not being as good as girls.
            Puberty is not kind to boys & hence why things like porn appeal to the teenage boy.
            But with more & more extreme porn flooding the internet boys can’t cope & their brains are in total disarray.
            Video games are having the same effect, it’s all too much brain overload & there no area left in the brain to absorb the education he needs to get ahead in life.

          • sdrake

            Go away, Conrad.

          • Guest

            who the hell is Conrad ???

          • Uncontainable Spirit

            lol… ok. You win! Congrats!

            REMEMBER MEN! Let it go. You simply cannot win. Your voice is not going to be heard. You will be wrong here. Just understand this from the beginning.

          • Guest

            & you simply can’t absorb information to help in any way shape or form…so stop posting the same shit everywhere…it helps no man or any woman…….ever !!

          • Uncontainable Spirit

            PLEASE TAKE NOTE GENTLEMEN. Ad Hominem attacks, profanity, vitriol. Stay the course men. Stay the course. In the words of another revolutionary: First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

          • Allison Swanson

            Uncontainable spirit – spot on.. “Guest”.. as John McLaughlin would say “Wrong”.. I recently went to the middle school – principal was female, vice principal was female, teachers were all female.. They suggested he be on drugs – drug my boys so they act like girls? Nobody can deny that our education system is failing boys – in one generation. Where is the hue – the outcry? Nope – they are just boys afterall.. Who cares about them? I feel my Feminist sisters smirk.

          • Guest

            Incorrect, boys are now becoming addicted to high reward activities
            & school can’t supply the high reward activity boys now seek.

            Both video games & porn provide high rewards for little participation.

            Where boys would once work hard at school to eventually receive the high reward of good grades & the ultimate reward of a career they wanted, boys see this now as too much work.

            Where boys once use to chase girls & be rewarded when they finally got the girl, now they have a 10 in their bedroom on the computer screen & they didn’t even have to put in any effort.

            Men aren’t becoming teachers any more as it’s not seen as a rewarding career choice, so schools have mainly female teachers, this has nothing to do with feminism & everything to do with there just aren’t many male teachers applying for teaching jobs.

            So if men aren’t applying ,schools have no choice but to hire who is applying & that’s women. Ask your child’s school why there aren’t many male teachers at the school & you’ll soon see why.

            When I asked my son’s (male) teacher what was the biggest problem he faced as a teacher it was trying to keep boys engaged at school, they’re daydreaming out the window. He has no such trouble keeping girls interested, girls don’t get addicted to video games & porn outside of school. Boys have starting failing in the last 20yrs & guess whats been around for the last 20yrs

            Schools will not be introducing high reward activities any time soon, as schools have never had high reward activities for little work, so boys & their parents need to find a way to either limit high reward activities out of school or face a bleak future for their son.

          • Allison Swanson

            You are pathetic – i see it – blame the boys if they dont do well – but change the schools if the girls dont do well – im glad that your ilk and opinion are going to fade rapidly. – Still waiting for your single issue where feminists promoted something for men.

          • Guest

            Hardly are people with my views fading. lol
            The only countries in the world that have any form of economical progress are countries with feminism…so sorry!! feminism is going no where.

            And I’ve established on thing your another male posting as a female hoping women will think women want out of feminism…lol…you are pathetic !!

            Men need to fix men’s problems, it’s not up to women to fix their issues. Feminism looks out for female issues CORRECT the name itself tell us this.
            Men can blame feminism all they want, but until men take responsibility for their own issues, they’ll get nowhere. Boys need more male teachers, now get going & go fix this problem in the education system.
            AND since I’m a feminist you can give me credit for the advice for something for men…lol

          • Allison Swanson

            I agree with your concession of Feminism being about Females – but I am not a MALE! Please! I think most modern women do want out of Feminism – perhaps going away from advocacy – to real equality with the sexes. Ive spent a lot of time today – we are in the midst of horrible weather – reading about marriage, feminism – male/female relationships, etc.. I do see a lot of women being concerned about men and boys and rejecting the Feminist lable – all movements have labels, but once the movement has achieved its goals, the label goes away – and a truce is made. Its time for the truce – and for everyone to be concerned about injustices – regardless of gender – that is NOT FEMINISM – per your own admission, and I agree..

          • Guest

            Agree, but I feel feminism is still relevant today & it gets a bad rap for things the movement hasn’t done. I get sick of people every time something is wrong blame feminism.

            There are always other issues at play, feminism is here to stay & I get annoyed at men when they blame it for all their problem, it’s not right & not fair to denounce the good it has achieved in the world.
            Anyway good we could come to a bit of an agreement & have a nice day :-)

          • Allison Swanson

            I disagree that feminism is in worlds with economic progress – the US has a massive debt issue – companies will not go to Sweden – which is the feminist utopia – the Swedish men are importing wives at a rapid rate.

      • Guest

        Have a look at the “demise of guys” to get a clearer picture. It’s a must see for anyone raising boys.
        Boys are becoming addicted to video games & porn.
        Boys on general are spending 2-4 hrs a day on these activities & it’s affecting their brains.
        While boys are wasting their time on these activities girls are achieving & leaving boys behind. So until this is addressed boys will continue to fail at school & this has nothing to do with feminism.

        • Allison Swanson

          LOL – disagree – feminism has everything to do with the demise of guys – boys with out fathers (70-90% of divorces initiated by women) – directionless – (a continuous stream of being characterized as broken girls – after all a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle, right?) another continuous stream of being characterized as the purveyors of bad people.. I should would love to see what you say about the black boys in the country.. This change happened in one generation – immediately after the rise of feminism and its take over of the educational system. My sisters smirk at the boys failure.

          • Guest

            Simple really, women have choices!! where once they didn’t.
            A generation ago women would stay in bad marriages as they had no other choice, they needed men for financial reasons mainly.
            Now if their in a bad relationship they don’t stay they leave & make a life for themselves with or without a man.
            Is this feminism fault ? well if you believe women should just stay with a man even if she’s unhappy, then yes it’s feminism fault.
            Feminism has taught women that their entitled to happiness & a choice in life.
            Now what also needs to be looked at is men who just walk away from their responsibilities, it’s not seen as a high reward activity!
            Marriage is seen as to much work for some men, women aren’t worshiping the ground they walk on any more, it’s a partnership & that takes work!!

          • Allison Swanson

            LOL “women arent worshiping the ground they walk on” – dear, i would say the opposite is true. – Men wont engage the women because they want commitment, but dont want to follow through with it (initiation of 75-90 percent of divorces). You stripes are evident – comment all you want – but im still waiting – whats ONE issue that feminism has put forth to build families and would be “for men” – like you said they did so much. Its time to look after the boys – yelling at them to “be a man” wont work – they will walk away – I wonder what your opinion of the black boys and minority boys that are falling behind would be – the stripes would reveal just another kind of bigotry from an ideologue.

    • pooppoop12

      LOL, really? You are aware that men AND women who don’t associate themselves as feminists can equally bring about change, positive energy, and awareness for female injustice WITHOUT associating themselves as either pro-feminist, pro-masculist, right???

      • Uncontainable Spirit

        Sir/Ma’am, you’re obviously not my intended audience. The men who are understand the wisdom in my position and will behave accordingly. Have a fantastic day.

        • pooppoop12

          Fcking bullshit my ass that I don’t “understand the wisdom” of your phony-ass “position”. We’re all humans, and as such we are automatically humanists of the same race. Not some pro-feminist / pro-masculist war that you attempt to pull over our eyes.

          As a non-feminist, the rest of my kind (billions) can “go forth and do something productive”: rise up as a voice to put more police on the streets of India to reduce the horrifying rape statistics of innocent Indian women.

          As you don’t HAVE to be labeled a feminist to call for better treatment of Indian women, my case is closed, and your ignorance is ripped wide open for the world to see.

  • God Damn

    No matter how good, how intelligent, how competent the feminist, their name implies that Women are oppressed and need to be raised to the same level as men.

    What they don’t realize is how women and minorities receive benefits just for being that way and squander the white male.

  • joe jones

    What a limp-wristed faggot

  • adam

    This was an enlightened article. I’m impressed you were able to target all audiences by being unbiased on such a sensitive subject. Congrats. I hope society finally passes up sensationalism and finds the value in mostly unbiased writing.

  • Dexter

    The stereotypical feminism movement doesn’t exist anymore – in our Western society where, for the most part, we have equality between sexes (and by that, I mean both sexes have an equal amount of inequalities – we’ll never be truly equal – nature has dictated so). Feminism today is mainly radical feminism. Big feminist names of the 20th century like Erin Pizzey have stated that they are horrified at the movement of modern feminism.
    I am an anti-feminist because I believe in equality between sexes. If you believe in equality for all, you really should consider calling yourself an Egalitarian – in all instances – at least you won’t get associated with the misandrous or misogynistic, the racist and homophobic etc.
    When I hear about feminism nowadays – it’s when feminists are calling to castrate Richard Madden (I think that’s his name, from Game of Thrones?) because he sat with his legs open on a train. It’s Sharon Osbourne laughing about a news story where a wife cut off her Husband’s penis when he asked for a divorce – if the genders were swapped, and a woman had her breasts mutilated – no one would be allowed to laugh about it (nor should they). It’s Anita Sarkeesian who gives a very biased ‘educational’ report on the tropes in videogames, who, in herself, is a complete hypocrite and is very sly with her words and actions. It’s feminists calling for the benefit of women only, and the worshipping of Valerie Solanas – who shot Andy Warhol. It’s feminists remarking that non-feminist females are simply weak-minded and vulnerable by saying they’ve been brain-washed by the non-existant Patriarchy (AKA, they’re being sexist to both sexes).
    So again, if you are a feminist who doesn’t have a double standard, or an innate desire to exterminate all men, why associate yourself with these few psychologically broken people when you can associate yourself with something that actually stands for equality?

    • truth guest

      Wow, did you even read the article?? or do you just post the same shit on any feminist article ??
      Picking out random quotes was one of the main points in the article & doesn’t represent all. As a man I can quote heaps of sexist shit guys say “get back in the kitchen” shit like that, but that isn’t all of us, so your comparisons are really not fair.

      As a male, I can still see where women need more equality. A female jorno I work with was being paid less then us guys & she had a child to support as the dickhead Dad doesn’t contribute to the child’s upbringing. We couldn’t believe our boss would pay her less as she does the same job & needs to pay for so much extra everyday out of her wage to survive & we didn’t have children to support.

      The way I see it, I ignore all media & just look at individual day by day living & take notice of every situations & say to myself is that fair to her or him, it’s clears things up & leaves all the generalizing shit aside !!

      • Allison Swanson

        Then marry her and take care of the child.. Be a MAN! (Sarcasm galore)

  • truth guest

    Great article, very balanced, you can tell the ones that haven’t read the article & just post the same shit you see on all articles on feminism.
    I think you covered all misconceptions there are about feminism, too bad there are still a lot out there that just aren’t listening & have their comprehension ears closed.

  • Scott Bryant

    Ask google to define feminism and this is what you get:

    Feminism – the advocacy of women’s rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.

    So I, and many other people, look at it like this: Feminism is not so much about equality but about improving woman’s rights in areas where these rights are considered less than that of men. It is not really about equality for the sexes. It is not about bringing light to sexism in all of it’s forms, only half. It is not about teaching people how to identify misandry (defined as: the hatred of men by women). or teaching women and girls not to be misandristic. It is about teaching people to identify misogyny. And men and boys to not be misogynistic.

    Feminism draws attention towards women’s rights and ignores men’s rights. So much so that “misandry” (which is an official word) is not recognized by this site as a word and is underlined as if it were a spelling mistake. And “misandristic” is not even an officially recognized word as of yet. Though I doubt anyone can truly claim they have not been witness to misandry in their daily life just as they could not claim to have never witnessed misogyny.

    A feminist who also cares about and advocates men’s rights as well as women’s is more than a feminist. The writer talks about feminism as if it were gender equalism when it is not. A more fitting word for someone who wants equal rights and treatments for both genders would be a gender equalist or just equalist.

    When someone tells me they are a feminist I immediately become more wary of them if I do not know them well. Because of these facts. It may be this person is all about gender equality. Or it may be that they are all about women’s rights. Or worst case, they believe in improving women’s rights at the cost of men’s. All of these are possibilities.

    But in my experience someone who claims to be a feminist is most often not truly interested or concerned with the rights of males. And I believe that is the main reason today that there is now somewhat of a stigma to calling yourself a feminist. And although the #1 reason was cited as being “Because some individual feminists hate men.” It doesn’t cover the fact that many of those feminists that don’t hate men. Still are only concerned with their personal rights as females and many are blind to the fact, or in denial, that misandry exists and is a real and serious problem as well.

    The common belief in fact is that feminism can spawn misandry. And I have witnessed this first hand. Many so called “feminists” preach hate towards men. Probably because they have unresolved issues and pain directly connected with males in their past. And though feminism by definition has nothing to do with putting men down. When enough feminists practice putting men down and teaching younger girls to do this as well (i.e. with jokes about how men are useless and lazy, or comments like men are only good as a walking sperm bank). It affects how people view feminism in a negative way.

    My opinion is that instead of blindly defending feminism and any criticism it receives as some do, or claiming that feminism encompasses gender equality (which is false) it would be better if people started to focus more on gender equality. If someone says they are an equalist or a gender equalist it does not by definition tell me that they are looking out for the right of one sex while ignoring the other. And to me that is exactly what the word feminism has come to embody. And though I cannot deny the need for focused action, regarding women’s rights that are obviously below that of a man in society, in the form of feminism. I find it ridiculous to be told things along the lines of “feminists as a whole are looking out for my rights as a man” or that “feminism and the rights of women are simply more important or essential to equality than the rights of men, and all sexes.”

    I do not disagree with the majority of what the author has written. But I feel it is much too narrow a view of the prejudice between male and female. And when the author writes about people whining about feminists hating men and that this is distracting yourself and others from serious issues of inequality. I feel that he is in fact distracting himself and others from a very serious issue of inequality that is misandry, something that should not be ignored and affects us all. How is it any different than saying people need to stop whining about men hating women??

    • pooppoop12

      Thank you thank you thank you, EXACTLY! Most reasonable post on here…this is what I wrote earlier about the author’s wording of the definition of “feminism”:

      “”"In the article, you state “Feminist means “person who believes people should have equitable places in society regardless of their gender.””… which is mysteriously differently worded from the Wikipedia definition, “A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.”

      See the slight difference? A feminist actually supports and advocates the rights and equality of WOMEN, in particular. You worded it as just a person who believes “people” should have equal rights. Of course “people” should have equal rights, and it doesn’t take a feminist to do that!”"”

      I’ve spoke with several feminists who have never even heard of masculism. Therein lies an essential problem with feminism. If feminism actually ‘were’ for equal rights of both genders, then why bother labeling yourself as a feminist? The author even admits to the bias of strictly female advocacy:

      “Many feminists are concerned that addressing men’s issues (or gender issues as a broad goal) will move the conversation completely away from women’s issues, resulting in no progress for the women’s part of the gender progress.”

      Which is, pardon me, utter bullshit. If you segregate your cause less and unite more with the rest of the millions of people who are pro-womens’ rights and are NOT feminists, then the cause moves forward in a positive light!

  • pooppoop12

    My beef is more with the label of feminism. I’m a male. I’m not a feminist, nor am I a masculist. I support equal rights for all genders, as well as races, orientations, etc. Essentially, I suppose I associate myself as a humanist, or a “moralist” of some sort.

    Why do I have to side myself with “feminism” in order to properly combat male injustice towards women? There seems to be a bizarre prerequisite that you have to side with the most abused group in order to fight it ‘the right way’. Millions of people don’t associate themselves with strictly feminists…yet, they’ll march in the streets for womens’ rights. You don’t tell bi-partisan voters “Sorry, to vote Democrat you have to be a Democrat.” Reality and society does not work that way.

    In the article, you state “Feminist means “person who believes people should have equitable places in society regardless of their gender.””… which is mysteriously differently worded from the Wikipedia definition, “A feminist advocates or supports the rights and equality of women.”

    See the slight difference? A feminist actually supports and advocates the rights and equality of WOMEN, in particular. You worded it as just a person who believes “people” should have equal rights. Of course “people” should have equal rights, and it doesn’t take a feminist to do that!

    If feminists are intended to fight male abuse, and masculists are intended to curtail male abuse, aren’t both working for the exact same thing??? Therefore the raging controversy of shunning men who refuse to identify as feminists is petty and asinine. Strip the pro-feminism and pro-masculism labels, light them on fire. We’re all Pro-Equal in this movement together.

  • Olly B

    I was trying to read through some of the comments after a quite interesting article, just to see the response it got. I don’t agree with it all, but that’s a separate issue. The main thing i wanted to comment on, is that throughout these comments both an anti-feminist male, and a feminist female create the hostility and division that surrounds the notion of feminism that prevents your average white male from supporting the cause. Not through their own misogyny but through the issue being divisive when it should be inclusive. That only helps the cause of the anti-feminist, they succeed by bringing the feminist into an argument, as she unfortunately responds in a way that that slates men as a whole and not just the perpetrator in question. Responses like that won’t ever bring success and it continues to create division, look at the great successes in radical movements MLK, Mandela, Ganhi, all advocate accepting the ignorance and responding with a calm and non offensive response.

    My personal opinion on the matter is that one of the biggest issues surrounding feminism is the term itself, it’s been voiced before and it will be again. The term feminism has too many negative connotations to the mind of your average guy to be seen as a movement they can support. Half of this article discusses the radical feminism that can be found if you look for it, and unfortunately this does taint the movement as it’s easily seen. Movements like humanism despite the religious elements of that, would be far more practical as men then see themselves as part of the fight rather than the oppressor which nobody wants to feel like.

    • Guest

      The problem is Men in general have been conditioned to rubbish what is feminine.
      Boys learn this very early in life, if they want to insult another boy they’ll call him a “girl” “throws like a girl”.
      Often their own father will tell his son “don’t be a girl” etc
      This then continues into adult life with boys learning you need to rubbish what is female & praise what is male.
      So here I find one of the reasons for some men to rubbish feminism as it’s not masculine !! (a lot of men just can’t help themselves).
      I just say to guys who say they hate feminism “So you wouldn’t want your daughter to have the same opportunities as your son” which they always reply “of course I want her to have the same choices”
      WELL without feminism she wouldn’t have these choices & opportunities, Government’s didn’t just hand this right over, women & feminism fought for this right & the right to vote & the right to own property & the right to have control over her own body, etc !!
      Now my personal view is feminism is great, but like all movements you’ll get over the top radicals, with loud voices & they seem to be the ones guys always quote, even if this woman said this 20yrs ago, some men will just run with it (which I believe shows a lack of intelligence).
      Look for all the positives don’t zoom in on the minor negative & you’ll see what the majority of women see & are DAMN THANKFUL FOR !!
      It’s no use changing the name because it is a movement mainly for females (although it can free men as well) & a name change wouldn’t deal with female issues & these issues are very different from men’s issues.
      For men there is the MRA’s but one look at their sites & if I was a guy I’d run as fast as I could, no wonder it has been declared a “Hate Movement” never read so much hate one on thread, even death threats. With one guy stating “career women need acid thrown in their face” charming & not the right men to attract to a group who claim to be looking after men’s interests..

  • nu

    I’m not a feminist because I think the word feminism is inherently sexist. I agree that we should be equitable with everyone but I don’t think it should be called feminism. I think one should prescribe linguistic restraint when using the word feminism as it is misnomer. Just call the movement for equity humanism or some non-specific term referring to Homo sapiens without allusion to sex.

    • sllab xussulpg

      Very well said. Several times I’ve asked feminists “well what about the fact that more women go to college now than men? What about sentencing discrimination that clearly favors women?” In ALL cases they were either ignorant or didn’t care.

      So if you don’t know anything about what men have to deal with, how can you possibly know if you’ve achieved parity?

      The very fact that feminists aren’t interested tells you right off the bat that they’re not interested in equality, just power.

  • robertapproves

    There IS actually a problem with this, feminism by definition is ‘a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social right for women.” But the truth lies in this quote: “If you’re fighting for equality and you pick a side, you’re not fighting for equality.” Better call it equalism and everything is solved.

  • VancityLogicBomber

    I think that feminism is right when it says that men and women are equal and as a man I really appreciate it.

    I belong to one of the first generations of men that’s holding women to their word when they say that they don’t need men. There is a wonderful freedom of not having to fall into the standard roles of protect, provide or worker bee.

    Want me to walk me to your car late at night? Nope, you don’t need a man. What’s that? You’re stuck on the side of the road because you’ve got a flat, don’t know how to change a tire and need my help? Sure I can help. The jack is in the trunk and the instructions are on the side of it, call me when you get home. What’s that? You’re 36 and you’re really worried about having waited to long to have children and I seem like a nice responsible guy? Sorry love, I don’t feel like having to risk a debt laden marriage, a messy expensive divorce, parental alienation and poverty because you keep taking me to court to get more money out of me. But hey, I can give you the number for the sperm bank knock yourself out because hey – you don’t need a man.

  • Dakota

    the problem with feminism now is that the misandrist who identify as a feminist has poisoned the term to the point of being beyond repair. I know that its only a select few who are just very vocal about their misandry, more so then the actual feminist but now, because of them. The word feminist has turned bitter in my mouth everytime i say it despite knowing what i know. imagine how it is for people who don’t know what i know.

    also, one part that really didn’t sit well for me is saying us white guys have more previlages. guys a manager so what. thats what the movement is trying to fix. i won’t have it for long (hopefully). the use of “all men” is mean’t to include every gender in it. its the default. us guys have to be the provider. the protector. we have to have them tough manly jobs otherwise we’re total losers in the eyes of society. guys have to be the playas. banging one chick per night (exaggeration) otherwise we’re a virgin loser who needs a life.

    rape, yes, its more towards women but violence? not even close. us guys get into more fights (due to our own stupidity admittedly)and thanks to the backwards “can’t hit women” crap violence when done (excluding rapes) to a women is less severe by a mile, most cases atleast. women can objectify men all they want. look at that one weight loss commerical with a lot of girls dancing then theres one man who is the ideal guy (short hair thats spiked in the front, tall, fit) for most women doing a dance but theres no stink on the news about how its degrading to men to have a guy dancing half naked for a womens commercial. “objectifying men? hahahahaha yeah right, you can’t do that to a man” certainly not putting him in there for his personality.

    I can’t call a women a sexist without being laughed at. I can’t punch a women even if they got a knife to my throat, i’d still be called a horrible person for defending myself. On the white part of that i can’t call a black dude a racist and be taken serious. hell, i’ve been accused of being racist because i didn’t want to do a project for school and my partner happened to be black and he told the teacher “hes racist”. they can call me “whitey” “cracker” and all the other words used for a white dude. call a black dude blacky, as funny as it sounds, i’d be called a racist and i’d be looked at like i just murdered someone.

    Out of all that i have mentioned none is as bad as all this one reason. us guys HAVE to sign up for the draft for the pure fact we have a penis. physical strength does not matter. if you’re a guy. you MUST risk your life weather you want to or not if you are called. I’ll gladly trade all those “privelages” if it means i don’t have to sign up for that thing. we don’t have it gold. not even close.

    Us guys have just as much, i’m not manly, i don’t care to be “manly” or “tough”. I’d rather have a women come save my wimpy butt then be the one doing the saving. i can’t get all spastic when i see a cute little kitten without someone giving me a weird look. I focus on my looks way more then some chicks would and some people notice and call me weird for it. i’m not bringing down feminism. there are some real issues that i hope we can get past that this movement very much will help fix but i’m not gonna be told that i have privelages that somehow make my life so much more easy. that white male privelage is a load of crap that i’m tired of hearing being tossed around. like i’m supposed sit and take crap from people because i have these o so great priveliges that excludes me from whining.

  • Dr137cyoutube

    1. Because it does.
    2. Because it fucking does.
    3. Because it damn well does.
    4. Because it might as well.
    5. Because feminists are born and raised to hate men with their lighter prison sentencing, unfair divorce advantages, and their not-so-secret rape cry.

  • Theo Devine

    All i want to say is that im 21 years old and a young man and i feel constantly attacked by movements of feminist movements and even woman’s mags? what did i ever do? why what am i tossed into there statistics and percentages .

  • sllab xussulpg

    Most feminists I’ve known, even the ones I get along with to the extent we hang out, are clearly misandrists to varying degrees. In the best case, the attitude is typically, “I don’t want to hate and distrust men, but how can I not with all these rape statistics!?” But in ALL cases, and yes, I mean in every single case, when I question them about where they got those statistics, they’re clueless. Someone just told them that “One in four women will be raped”, for example, and they’re off to the races.

    If someone told me that one in four black people is clinically retarded (I.Q. of 70-85), I would say, “That seems awful high. Where did you get that information from?” And then I’d check it out myself. The fact that the overwhelming majority of feminists are willing to hate and distrust an entire gender without even studying and verifying the scientific and statistical data tells me they’re not interested in the truth. They want to hate men, someone presents the carrot of supposed evidence validating their hate, and that’s all the “proof” that is needed.

    Give them the proof that contradicts and invalidates their baseless misandry? The response I get is frighteningly common, “Well…now you know how it feels!” Oh, so it’s not about equality. It’s about “getting even”.

  • sllab xussulpg

    Why does this article quote Pat Roberts as evidence of the negative view of feminism? Roberts is a fringe religious figure. He does not in any way represent the norm. But increasingly the “average” male is coming to realize that feminism is primarily about misandry, not equality.

  • Sadie

    Please please please come talk at my school (in a very small town in England…)!

  • Empirical

    You might even argue based on what you find on the internet that most feminists hate men. It’s irrelevant.

    No, it’s not (assuming for the sake of the point that “most feminists hate men” is true). You can’t take the theoretical definition of a philosophy and elevate it above its actual instantiation. If it’s genuinely true that “most feminists hate men” (as we’re postulating for the sake of the argument), then it is not unreasonable to conclude that feminism and man-hating are intimately intertwined to the point of being all but inseparable–and in fact it’s unreasonable to insist that no, despite the fact that so many “feminists” evince hatred or bigotry toward men, that is not part and parcel of actual feminism as it exists in the actual world.

  • Vol-cano

    Separatism is the sticking point, I think anyway. “Feminist” is an idea that promotes female advocacy over other human beings, really. I’m afraid this is a product of the legacy of Elizabeth Cady Stanton, if the discussion is to be truly honest. If equality is the goal, I wish advocacy groups would lay aside separatist ideas in human equality. Equality, it seems to me, should conform the actual meaning of the word, in that all people are created equal, deserve equal treatment under the law, and should be considered as valuable parts of society. I’m for that, without reservation.

    -Lonely Voice

  • Sis

    I would like to see name feminism to change. To something which do not have femini in it. It would help to prevent misunderstanding. All so… It would separete misandrists from feminists.

  • BillChilds

    The problem with this is that it’s really arguing from the standpoint that there’s an ideal type of feminism and that all of the critiques are based on drawing erroneous conclusions from, for want of a better word, “bad” feminists.

    It’s worth saying that feminism is not the same thing as a belief in gender equality. Almost all reasonable people in western democracies in 2014 agree with the principle of gender equality. Rather, feminism is a particular philosophy which puts gender equality as its goal, in the same way that many other philosophies put gender equality as their goal (or one of their goals). The reason why this is a problem is that it makes criticising feminism impermissible because it’s read as an attack on the concept of gender equality. I think that’s flawed reasoning – it’s perfectly legitimate to support gender equality and to criticise feminism at the same time.

    There are two genuine criticisms of feminism that I think stand up to scrutiny. The first is that it has a reductionist focus. It posits that the key explanation for social problems stems from gender relations, and while there have been many academic attempts to integrate this with other factors (e.g. Marxist feminism which integrates class and gender into the same model) the way feminism is typically applied privileges the role of gender over other factors. Gender is not, in fact, the key dynamic underpinning society: it’s one factor among many that structure social relations. Genuine social research should be evidence driven, it shouldn’t work from the standpoint that gender relations are the explanation from the outset.

    The second problem, for me, is that there’s a disjoint between what feminism aims to do and what it actually does in practice. The worst type of feminism, which unfortunately makes up the bulk of the discipline in my view, can best be described as “male psychology” rather than a study of gender relations. It might not treat all men as rapists, but it works from the assumption that men are a potential threat and that they have to be educated in such a manner as to prevent them lurching into sexual violence. That’s where the preoccupation with pornography and the objectification of women enters the picture.

  • ThinkPink414

    I somehow found my way to this site (men are better) earlier and have been disgusted since. Im glad I came across your article to erase some of that from my mind. I wish that we could respect each other without all the judgments on groups as a whole. Not many people think the same just because they do or do not have a penis yet the general discussions on these topics seem to be about all of one type. I don’t get how though. My reasoning is I have 4 sisters and out of the 5 of us, no 2 think or act exactly the same. Some want to be taken care of. Others don’t want to rely on anyone. While I enjoy having my husband by my side as my equal knowing he can count on me and I can him. We rely on each other as a parnership but not as dependants.

    I’m sorry to rant about it but after the things I have read today I’m alittle floored.

    Thanks again for a truely unbias view on an extrenely difficult subject.

    Anyone want a good laugh or some people to be mad at- go on over to the page I stumbled on. Be warned you will get mad.

    http://www.menarebetterthanwomen.com/top-ten/#comment-1187304868

  • miscurmirin?

    dafug i just read
    written by a beta for beta
    no thx jeff

  • Steph

    Thank you for this article. :)

  • neruoicurn

    It’s not a belief. It’s reality. I have not had one good interaction with a feminst. I use to passively agree with their positions.

    Now I see the movement for what it is: a special interest movement. And they don’t care about issues other than their own. It’s that simple.

    They are authoritarian, and they want to tell you how to behave. And I don’t mean in the “don’t rape” sense, but that is one of the many things they love to say, as if the vast, vast majority don’t already know that.

    In the US, UK, and AUS, it’s a nasty, white privileged position and they have no shame or hesitancy to accuse anyone with minor disagreements with them as MRAs, misogynists, etc, etc, etc. In fact, I’m so tired of the abuse it’s amazing. And that is precisely what it is, abuse. Abuse in the most nasty form: Sexism. Feminists claim they are antisexism. No, they against sexism that isn’t of their persuasion.

    In the last year I have not met a single Feminist that was genuine about being concerned about men’s issues. Not. A. Single. One.

    The term Feminist is sexist in of itself, and any male that thinks it is not, well, you’re likely trying to take advantage of a situation… something I’m accused of and never have.

    Feminists are a minority in the female population, and essentially not worth mentioning from the male side.

    Yet I see so many men defend feminism, because they are white, privileged, and have no worries in the world. Well guess what, far be it for me to tell you you’re as mislead and over privileged. SES has far more to do with suffering than gender does. So deal with it. You’re movement is essentially dead, and you should find something far more inclusive.

  • bobowitz

    bah, to tell someone they have a problem they don’t even know they have is a little presumptuous of people. Also, the big problem with current feminism is defining what is sexist, and therefore what is bad. (sexism=bad) This gets annoying for the everyday man who A. has things they enjoyed and even loved called sexist. (for me, video games) and then B. has to watch those things go through radical changes to fit with a certain groups (not necessarily ones who truly want equality) views (not video games) everyones afraid of change, so to make changes upon people who grew up one way, even if the changes are warranted, is a long and steep road that cannot be surmounted.

  • some dude

    u guys should reject the anti male haters and reject them from your ideals. thats the reason i even read this cuz i randomly come across more hate than positivity. this post put me at ease cuz the majority of feminists are starting to seem to be on the same page as racists and bigots. everyone has a chance at redeeming qualities.

  • matt

    Why do people believe it if it’s not true?

    Because people are irrational.

    Fundamental problem with this statement, it’s a cop out to say people are irrational, the example given does not work because people today are exposed to different sides of the debate, they get both pieces of paper not just oneof the two. So the question still remain why it is seen as true, and why so many people reject or have problems with feminism, not just certain groups but a wide spectrum of people from sexist elderly men to young egalitarian women. There is a large disparity between the perception of feminism from a great variety of different demographics and genders and feminism as describe by those trying to defend the movement (usually via saying it just means supporting equal rights for women). the reality is that the disparity exists because there is a disparity between the feminism seen and the feminism described by those trying to appeal to the unconvinced, otherwise there would be no reason for the existence of feminism as it already exists – it would simply be another name for ‘egalitarianism’.

  • Christine Grace

    Sorry if this has been mentioned. But I think the other aspect of what has caused the rancor against the word “feminism” is that women and the word feminism both have been hijacked to help support unrelated political agendas, personal, or moral beliefs.

    Democrats started using it to gain the moral high-ground to gain political support for the highly controversial, highly debated, morally questioned subject of abortion, calling it a woman’s right, feminist issue, anyone opposed doing a “war on women”. Which of course, suddenly would make anyone against abortion (which is my understanding) still about 50% of the country – anti-feminist. I think that’s when we started hearing the phrase “feminism is a war on men” going around.

    I’ve also heard gay rights being promoted and intertwined a lot inside feminist blogs. And though socially liberal women who are feminist activist may see similarities and feel empathy its incorrect to intwine the two different issues. Because again, it forces you to give controversal political party allegiance just to support equal gender rights or the word “feminism.” Gay rights is a different, a different battle completely. It has nothing to do with a domestic battle of patriactary between men and women.

    Third, I’ve also seen liberal feminist activists intertwining their religious beliefs (or lack thereof) and expressing on their blogs the only way of being truly feminist or to truly support feminism is to be atheist like them. Last time I checked, according to gallop, it was about 83% of the country that considers themselves Christians. If you tell 80+% of the country they can’t be feminist until they agree to subscribe to same religious, or lack of religious, moral beliefs you hold. Than 80+% of the country is going to think very negatively of that word.

    So than you get republican voices acting defensively when “feminism” is associated these other unreleated political campaigns they are against. Like Rush than coining the phrase “femni-nazi” And a lot of bad publicizing going around

    I’m a pro-life, Christian feminist. A lot of pro-life Christians probably feel “uninvited” to call themselves feminists, even though it only means supporter of equal gender rights. Since the word has been abused in the media circus and by different political groups.

  • deblehdebleh

    Being a feminist doesn’t mean you believe “all men are rapists.” – Only most men, and in that group of men 40% will be charged and only 3% will go to jail and dee blah dee blah blah

    Being a feminist doesn’t mean you think all men are evil. -For instance, men that write articles like these aren’t evil…or men that do the dishes or men that buy girls dinner or men that save pit bulls, or men that don’t seduce women, or men conditioned to hate masculinity, or men that blah blah blah….oh now I’m dizzy *faints*

    Being a feminist doesn’t mean you blame every individual man you know for hundreds of years of oppressive behavior. – No that would be like the blacks blaming every individual white for the institution of slavery and years of oppression because this manifest “gender oppression” thing or whatever definitely compares to that (wank). Anyways though, of course it doesn’t. We only the ones with enough suavity to make us swoon back into our place….or do we *giggle*

    #4 Because Some Feminists Aren’t Willing To Address Men’s Issues (Though some are) – Ha. Trust me. The last thing we need is some deluded, shit-spewing feminist to do is to talk about male issues like she has just been sent on the quest for the holy grail. I’m sorry if I offended any of you with my religious references. Usually, when a feminist comes blabbering about some male issue, it’s about how society is conditioning them to be….men…and how that is just morally wrong.

    Let’s skip ahead to “Am I trying to bring the White Man down?” – Yes, you are. I don’t buy any of this bullshit about how I’m-a-heterosexual-white-man-so-why-would-I-want-to-do-that? I mean I believe the first part, but what you are attacking isn’t white men in general, it’s the white men, and really men in America altogether (sans the race card…that’s weak sauce) who you you watched handle girls in high school like the virile impulsive assholes they were, only to see the girl fall into his arms like puddy. And you hated that because you could never do that, so your big ego led you here where you try to convince yourself that you’re better off and their ways and barbaric on a day-to-day basis. Or you just have mommy issues which would have caused all of that. That is who you are attacking, make no mistake. And I feel bad for you man…that must have sucked, but it’s not too late to reform your ways.

    And here is my imparting lesson among the souls of feminism.
    1) Your little movement in America has overstayed its welcome because it has accomplished all it needed to accomplish. It died out inside all the rationally minded in America around 1920.
    2) There is a time and place for feminism and that’s never and in the trash. Haha oh how I joke. No. There is a place for it and that is now and in the middle east where the women ACTUALLY ARE OPPRESSED. No one would hate you for that,,,at least not in America. Seriously though, there are so many terrible statistics (that are actually based on fact rather than embellishment) about rape over there that is hard to stomach. You know the phrase: “Go East, young lady!”
    3) And perhaps the most important. The biggest misogynists are other women. Remember that and carry it with you. Before you go accusing society with all your delusional egalitarian fury and how it fosters men to be all bravado and such…think over your logic and how their must be something innate in thousands of year of recorded history compared to the recent 100 years or so of regression brought by a series of advocacy/hate groups. hmm. And also how many cat fights you have engaged in with women/men. I bet those are such equal numbers.

    • Col_Conran

      are you drunk ? I’ve never read so much rambling rubbish ever!! Seriously !!

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    Sorry to say this but what determines the meaning of a word is the way in which normal speakers of the language that that word belongs to use it. When people use feminism they are referring to a sexist movement or ideology therefore feminism is sexist and if you don’t believe that most people or at least a very significant number of them use feminism to refer to a sexist movement or ideology look at these web pages.
    http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-feminism-sexist
    http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20090117205758AAZxddn

  • tabaqui

    Wow. Took about, what, five seconds for comments to be derailed into ‘but! no! men have it worse!!’ Whatever.

  • Descartes

    Sam is a faggot

  • peterman
  • Jen

    This is the reason why women go with other women because of disgusting men like this commenting on here.. A good woman wouldnt give the time of day to a pig that talks down to women and blames their femism for their OWN genders faults. It really apauls me. If a woman can own up to the the wrong things that women have done for years like being whores and sleeping around with a different guy everynight than why cant a man? Because they think they are not at fault and are better. You all just proved the point of this article.

  • Bob The equalist

    Bullshit. Lies. Feminist is a hate movement and that is all. If you title yourself a feminist that means your taking a side. Don’t take a side, be an equalist. Wanna defend rape victims? Be an equalist.

  • Nephanor of Fraal

    Well, let’s take your example, and the arguments you used. First off the “the bad feminists are individuals, not the group” That is referred to as the “Not a True Scotsman” Fallacy. It means that just because you don’t want to call them part of a group, doesn’t make them any less a part of your group. You can’t deny the bad apples, just because you don’t like them. They are a part of modern female entitlement (aka. Feminism) and as such, you can’t claim they are not. In many circles of those who fight feminism and the damage it does, we refer to that as the “Not all Feminists Are Like That” argument.

    Just because the ones you know are nice, doesn’t make the ones who are drafting public policy which labels men as the primary aggressors in domestic violence any less man hating. You can have 10,000 nice feminists to every 1 bad one, but as long as the bad ones are lobbying for the anti-male laws, feminism is responsible.

    Let’s take it another way. During WWII, we had a group of people called the Nazis. Some of them were evil, vicious, brutal people. The scum of the earth. There were millions more, who didn’t do a thing wrong, just voted for the Nazi’s and wanted a unified and prosperous Germany. But we hold both those who supported the Nazis as well as did the killing responsible. This is the same situation. If you support a group that has members lobbying for hatred of one group, you are indeed lumped in and considered a hater of the same group.

    Just because you don’t hate men yourself, doesn’t excuse you. You call yourself a label, a label that has been associated with the worse kind of man hating. As long as you support them in name, you are one of the haters.

  • Aerensiniac

    Feminism doesn’t hate men.
    Feminism doesn’t hate men.

  • Alaina Turner

    I’d like to see a discussion about how women are looked down on by a lot of men socially these days if they don’t work or choose to stay at home and take care of children. Seems society looks down on this and even makes it impossible financially. So single mothers don’t have much of a chance now do they ,unless they have a job or get an abortion. Choices don’t seem fair to people that still believe in raising their own children instead of daycares and nannys.

  • Lucid Fir

    Why is it so difficult for feminist authors to address their pieces to the men they believe to be causing problems, and NOT address their pieces to all men in entirety? Most of what I read is written as if it’s aimed at all men, as it gives no indication at any point that the author appreciates that it is not all men at fault. It just seems a bit stupid, as it will drive people to defensively read up on mens rights – most of the forums for which are fucking awful. /apathetic rant.

  • Drenn Workman

    Why haven’t prominent feminists denounced the minority man-hating feminists?

  • Andrew Ulrich

    I hear what this article is saying, but

    If women are oppressed, how is it that they were given the right to vote without any responsibility to give back anything to the country that gave them those rights, with minimal loss of life (black people had to wait for a civil war, then almost 100 years of jim crow laws and lynching and then a civil rights movement, women can’t say the same) while 18 year old men were dying in the millions during world war one without the right to vote?

    How is it that women are oppressed when they have all the rights to their children, control all reproductive rights and win 90% of divorce proceedings meaning if she wants to (and many do) she can strip a guy of half his stuff, take his paychecks and deny him his children, just because she felt like it. Or she could just not even tell him she’s pregnant and abort the baby.

    How is it that women are oppressed when they have equal pay. That’s right, yes they do and the department of labor agrees with me. When you factor in personal choices like career, working overtime or not, taking a break to have children and negotiating for a higher salary, then you’ll find that women get paid the same as a man in the exact same position.

    How is it that women are oppressed when they get the lions share of medical research money to the point that women are living 5 years longer than men, have made huge strides against breast cancer while 30,000 men die in America every year of prostate cancer.

    How is it that women are oppressed if they obtain a higher education at a higher rate than men while young boys are being prescribed drugs in record numbers for ADD because they fidget and lose interest in classrooms that are better suited to girls.

    How is it that women are oppressed by a “rape and violence culture” when the number of male victims if violence and rape far outstrip female victims. 200,000 men are raped in prisons every year, 80% of violent crime victims are men, yet feminism tells us that women are the real victims.

    Men nowadays die sooner, are growing up in schools that ignore and medicate them, have their possessions and children taken from them while being forced to pay for them, are victims of crimes more often and even die protecting women and even with all of that stacked up against men, feminism says that women have it harder and all their problems are all men’s fault via “the patriarchy”.

    The only conclusion that I can logically come up with is that feminism is a hate group. How else do you explain all that?

  • Janine Wilson

    Hrmm well I just left a feminist group because they all believe men are rapists and refused to believe that sometimes police stop to give women at night a lift because they feel like doing something nice. No it must be about rape. Bugger that.. bugger it all.. I am now antifeminist if it means associating with people like that who discriminate. So sickened. I even got told that being a bleeding heart liberal doesn’t go with feminism.

  • Shelbyfc

    I would just like to say that I consider myself to have feminist views but in no way do I hate men. I’ve actually never had a terribly bad experience with men. My feminist views came from my disagreeing with how women are treated in many religions, growing up in the south that’s where you see inequality the most. Woman can’t speak out of turn in some churches, or wear pants, or hold higher positions in the church. I always thought this was wrong and didn’t understand why for some reason this counted as an exception to the progress women had made through the suffragette movements. I don’t think feminism should equal “men hating”, because for me, that’s not what it’s about. It’s about equality and keeping that equality. Not all black people in the civil rights movement hated white people, so it’s illogical to say that all feminists hate men. I also don’t expect a man to go out of his way to be chivalrous. I just use common sense. If I get to the door first, its polite that I open the door, no matter who’s behind me. I bring this up because Valentines day is coming up and tons of girls on Facebook are talking about how guys should start doing things like that again. Any way, I went off on a tangent. Wonderful article, makes me feel better about the word feminist and to everyone who doesn’t agree with it, why are you reading it in the first place? Don’t read things that make you mad, stick to things you like. you’ll be a much happier person for it :)

  • Linkofhyrule

    If these groups of feminists who believe in equality should start showing they also care about men’s rights also, like say, start helping to fix the laws of child support, alimony, false rape accusations, and other countless laws that, when first presented were great laws, but had underlying terms that ultimately shifted the power in a woman’s favor. Unfortunately, when it gets so bad that men finally fight back, it’s going to destroy everything women have fought for, and ruin the image of women everywhere.

  • Cibouwat Horsifomidom

    “You might even argue based on what you find on the internet that most feminists hate men. It’s irrelevant.”

    No, sorry, it’s not. I sympathize that the oxymoronic term you prefer for the movement for “equality” has been usurped by the same kind of hypocrites and gender warriors well represented on the male side, but denial is not an appropriate response..

    I should qualify that. I don’t think the term was originally oxymoronic, simply due to the high inequality that existed at the time it was coined. Similarly it’s not oxymoronic everywhere. But in the West, among the dominant culture, it’s now insulting to hear it equated with “equality.”

    Let’s get together and call our movement “egalitarianism.” Try it, you’ll be amazed how a simple change in wording can change your focus from “femin-something” to “everyone.” A change in wording that allows for the possibility of looking at the male point of view. Wow, what a concept.

  • Polly

    It really upsets me when people confuse feminism for misandry, and don’t seem to understand that on the whole the movement is advocating equality… I’ve met girls that have pulled faces and said ‘ew’ when they found out I was a feminist, and tried to convince me that being one meant I was sexist and crazy and going to be single my entire life. I think that this misconception is dangerous… I know many feminists, and not one is a misandrist- and yet I’ve met many anti-feminists who believe that feminism is synonymous with misandry. I’m sorry, I hate moaning, it just really gets to me sometimes… Ugh, why can’t we just treat people as people? :(

  • Mara Zampariolo

    marry me. Seriously.

  • Mike S

    Sorry, but until the day comes when feminist is changed to humanist I still can’t take feminism as an equality movement.

  • Aiden

    Dammit this article is getting me nowhere on what femnism is.

  • Avro Arrow

    I think that part of the problem is with the name “Feminist”. It doesn’t exactly elicit the idea of equality and more than the term “masculism” would. If the name was “Gender Egalitarians”, then I think that it would be more believable to the general population. The very tern “Feminist” is not equal because it points specifically to the Feminine (Female) gender. As a result, I think it feels hostile towards men and makes misandrystic activists feel justified. Keeping the name “Feminist” seems to indicate that no progress has been made at all which couldn’t be further from the truth.

  • Ainslie

    Hey Sam! I recently gave a persuasive speech on why we should all be feminists and your article was enormously helpful in pinpointing myths I wanted to dispel as well as supporting my argument that men could also be feminists. The article is superbly well written and thank you so much for writing it. Good luck on your future social justice causes!

  • Mistergilgamesh

    Sam Killermann has got one point wrong when he equates feminism with islam. Better re-think your moral equivalencies Sam. Feminists don’t kill 3000 at a go, or massacre mall shoppers etc etc etc etc. You should stick to your subject, and not bundle other unrelated sub-groups along with your argument.

  • fuck off

    Fuck all feminists. Kill all the faggots, queers, and “trans*” people. The world will hear a lot less bitching and moaning. What a bunch of useless oxygen-sucking fucking degenerates.

    “My 6 year old is gay” YEAH MAYBE BECAUSE YOU FORCE YOUR FUCKING ANTIEVOLUTIONARY LIFESTYLE ON HIM

  • jarris ward

    this type of feminism is good. everyone should believe that women have a right to everything* that a man can do.
    *not to the extent that women start doing EVERYTHING men do but to the extent that is fair

  • Will

    Feminism is a great cause but even though the cause is not against men the facts are that men could be hated or disliked if they express some more traditionally feminine qualities
    There needs to be a movement fighting for both sides

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  • subbie

    The real reason why people know feminism doesn’t care about one.
    1) Because they do not care about facts. They never update their arguments when new information is being brought in. Feminists keep backing outdated claims that have been discredited by unbiased, long term research, such as the disproven statement that women get paid less for doing the same job. They don’t even try to read it and then dismiss it. They just pretend it doesn’t exist and never even bring it up.

    2) The amount of male victims and female perpetrators of both domestic abuse and rape is disgustingly underrepresented.

    3) Feminists can literally come up with lies (such as the origin of the rule of thumb), say it is the truth, and we are just expected to accept it without question. Even trying to bring up the point that something might not be true, is enough for feminists to call you a misogynistic piece of s*** and instantly shut you down.

  • Nicholas Dunwell

    I applaud your view, but when I took a few womens studies classes in college, I did not get the same sentiments you are expressing in the academia setting.

  • John Steele

    I can’t help but wonder why it’s only the metrosexual, homosexual, nerdy, and/or beta men we see talking up feminism. Unfortunately, I hesitate to accept that it’s OK for a red-blooded American man like myself to embrace feminism when the messenger runs a blog called “it’s pronounced metrosexual.” When more men who want the same things from women that I do start talking up feminism, my ears might be open wider. Until that day, I must dismiss this piece as more sycophantic nonsense written to appease the author’s aloof, bubblegum-chewing, ever-texting college liberal galpals who tolerate his company at their Wednesday Starbucks hangouts.

  • Prakash Cherian

    By bringing women up, you are inevitably putting men down. Many women abuse the privileges that are given to them.

    “many of the bad things in history have been caused by men” Bad or not, humans have evolved and developed so much because of these bad guys. Invaluable medical progress was made during Hitler’s reign because of the way the Nazi’s experimented with their prisoners. As bad as they were, threats to society is what made society grow as a whole.

    Do you honestly believe it would be a utopia if women ruled?

  • JK

    I just want to know what its called Feminism- it makes it sound like the women are more important in this dualistic relationship of equality between men and women. It should be inclusive, not exclusive for women having rights. The reason why so many have the notion that feminism is bad is because of the name– you want to take away mens’ right to give to women. Although educated individuals understand that is not the case- myself included, the name still alludes me in why it is called that if it is supposed to be an equal right movement.

  • Truth

    Feminism is based on the concept of pro-women. Masculism is the male counterpart.

    We don’t need feminists. We need egalitarians.

    A single focus gives disgusting and broken policies/legislation and a fucked up society all over.

  • Brendan

    Feminism is a hate group and feminists deserve to be hated for it. They are against men’s right to trial by jury when the accuser is a woman. They are against men being assumed innocent until proven guilty when the accuser is a woman. They are against men’s reproductive rights and men’s rights as fathers. They are for men being pressed into involuntary servitude without being convicted of an infamous crime (alimony). They are for innumerable privileges for women which correspond to onerous duties for men. Examples: they press for things like the VAWA even though the majority of victims of violence are male (look up BJS or FBI statistics if you don’t believe it). They are for affirmative action for women in education even though women are outperforming men. They are for affirmative action at work even though there is no real pay gap (read the first paragraph on this matter in the wikipedia article on it). They press are for harassment laws which make it illegal for men to hurt women’s feelings. The only feminists who are decent human beings were chased out of the movement decades ago, like erin pizzy. The only feminists that remain are sociopaths or idiots. Since you’re a man, I assume you’re the latter.

  • Anonymous

    Well done, I must say this is one of the most level-headed pieces I’ve read on feminism. I am a straight, cis-gender male, with blonde hair/blue eyes. In other words, I appear to be the poster-child of privilege in society.

    I currently am in graduate school for sociology and have to say, many of my classmates give feminism a bad name. Many of them believe studies of oppressed populations should only be carried out by those who are oppressed themselves. The concept of white/male privilege has been used on numerous occasions to delegitimize my point of view, sometimes even before I open my mouth to speak. Ironically, most of my classmates have no idea that I have a serious learning disability that puts me at a disadvantage in the classroom (they just assume because of my gender and skin color that I’m not part of any oppressed group).

    I acknowledge my privileges and realize that I’m unaware of many of them. However, if I constantly have to be thinking about political correctness all the time and worrying about offending someone, it makes it very hard to have an honest and open dialogue. My goal is to try as hard as possible to be respectful and empathetic to all people, but if I do say something that is somewhat ignorant, I would rather talk about it openly than be instantly called misogynistic or trans-phobic. I realize that my argument is very anecdotal, however it is hard sometimes to forget about personal experiences. I would love to see a split between the radical and moderate feminists, because I would join the moderate movement in a heartbeat.

  • papples

    Feminism is terrible at branding. If feminists want to be effective at achieving gender equality, the movement will have to re-brand itself. This is a reality that too many people refuse to accept.

  • John m

    A number of feminists do not hate men. That’s really good. A number of feminists think of man and woman as equal. Also, that’s great. But many feminists believe that man and woman are the same other than their body. Not true AT ALL. For example, I believe that men should be the ones who go to war and protect their family, not the wife. I believe that the woman takes care of the children. Woman goes through the pain of childbirth (her greatest power, and what an important power too) while man goes through pain of working so his family can survive. Man is in charge of the family, but it is important that he consult his wife before making big decisions. Man and woman are equal, but not the same.

  • Privileged White Male

    Even handed article, well read. Word to all: comment section is a poor place for an insightful debate. If only we could all meet face to face.

  • sdchtb

    The point trying to be made here is that a true feminist does not hate men. This is like saying l Muslims are terrorist. far from it. what we see here is people who are extremists and need something to be associated to. which is completely wrong. Unfortunately as stated in this article. We tend to be ignorant and believe what is being fed to us as it’s easier to believe this that make up our own minds.

  • Stiggie

    Protip, Reason 1: Because it does.

    The end.

  • Anony

    Traitor!

    ALL feminist and rebellious women shall be *euthanized* once their fertility runs out.

  • Green Parks

    I’m not a feminist, but I am an individualist, so I’m very interested in doing whatever I can to eliminate the injustices of sexism from our society. My main concern with feminism as an ideological movement is that, even at it’s best, when it focuses only on combating the negative (i.e. combating sexism) it is entirely negative in focus, and the positive statement is often left out. At its worst, it can become purely collectivist, and I think most people would agree that feminists have had a tendency of using divisive rhetoric which pits the genders against each-other in a sort of class struggle.
    In my view, the advantage of individualism is that it says “This is what’s important to pay attention to when evaluating a person.” The corollary of this perspective is a just society, where everyone gets what they deserve by their particular virtues.
    The feminist view says “This is what it’s wrong to pay attention to.” The corollary of this perspective is an equal society, where equality is held up as an end in itself and not as evidence for or an aspect of justice.

  • Gabriel Swanson

    What I find the issue is, Some people have the thought: Women will ABUSE us if WE give THEM the power, there for WE must KEEP power and SUPPERS the abuse before it happens to us- By ANY means necessary, any. I don’t look at a Women and think: OH, IT’S A WHORE WOMEN. I’M BETTER. no, not at all, I go about my day normally treating everyone the same.

    To say I am a “WALKING DILDO” makes ME want to just put one bullet in you’re HEAD >:( that rude, mean, and far as I care, TO IRRATIONAL for this world, so as a Psychopath some say- I must dismiss you emeidtly without any human emotion. I must dismiss you with NO real argument after, you are then Worthless. End of story. – Why so harsh? I have no other way to handle such comments and irrational thoughts! You are a DISEASE when you spread such hurtful comments. What if someone went on a rampage killing people because of ms.Valeri Solanas? That would NOT boil well with anyone… In a Nuthshell: Watch what you say and how you say it.

    When you walk up to a employer and say: “YOU’RE A WALKING PIECE OF SHIT, DILDO FOR WOMEN’S DNSKSDK RIGHTS BRUH..” What do you believe that MALE Employer will think? YOU-ARE-FIRED. :/ it’s just how things end up, it confuses me in a sense, I get mad, no one wins.

    Nutshell of conversation: DON’T BE A DICK :) Be nice, happy and GRATEFUL for WHAT rights you have, you’re not a SLAVE being RAPED and KILLED… Some people may not agree so- so remember when women were killed for simply speaking…

    We may not have EQUAL rights, yet- their getting there, it’s also political issues, it’s a LOT of shitting things together but we’ll NEVER be EQUAL on ALL levels, nature, and Human Anatomy!

  • Gabriel Swanson

    I get caught up in all the drama and non-sense, As a “Feminist” or PROCLAIMED one some people say, and Attack a man for just being a Man is not reason- that’s why Men some times act out harsh or say- You are a dirt, slutty whore, and probably deserve to die. Because simple enough: you say we have to die or be punished for being men ? Hm that’s why I was so RUDE or HASH in this convo :P here’s a NEW BIBLE: DON’T BE A DICK. ~ God

  • Emm

    BEAUTIFUL!

  • kyle

    I really appreciate your article. You perfectly sum up why some men don’t like some aspects of some femninists. You also point out what feminism actually is, and why we should all be feminists.
    I take offense to your last point however. As long as there is a twinge of man hating flavor to feminist minded blogs that I see online, I AM going to keep whining about it. Who would I be if I wasn’t playing for my own team? Who would be whining if not me?